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What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Emily Kramer, Co-Founder at MKT1.
Summary: Emily explored the convergence of marketing, investment, and startup growth, delivering actionable insights for marketers, founders, and investors. When picking future unicorns, she attributed timing and luck but stressed the importance of selecting startups that value marketing and whose products meet real needs in growing markets. Emily advocated for rigor in selecting martech tools that align with business goals, enhancing efficiency without compromising content quality. She also highlighted the need for “pi-shaped” marketers in startups, professionals who combine deep expertise in at least 2 areas like growth and product marketing, but also with a broad foundation. Additionally, Emily underscored the value of leveraging marketing skills in angel investing and internal advocacy, enhancing both startup viability and internal team alignment.
Jump to a Section
- The Secret to Picking Future Unicorn Startups
- Advancing Gender Equity in Venture Capital
- Fundamental Principles For Picking Martech Tools
- How to Master Internal Marketing and Advocate for Your Team
- Why the Ideal First Marketing Hire Is a Pi-Shaped Marketer
- Why You Should Manage Marketing Like a Product Team
- What Didn’t Work in the Past Might be Viable Today
- Navigating Angel Investing in Today’s Market
About Emily
- Emily started her career in Media planning at Ad agencies in SanFran and also had a stint in growing a programmatic ad platform
- She went back to school to complete an MBA at Harvard and joined Salesforce as a Product Marketing MBA intern before later joining a startup called Ticketfly as an early marketing team member
- Emily then made the mega move to Asana as Head of Marketing as the 35th employee where she built and scaled the marketing team from 1 to 25 in less than 4 years
- She moved on to an email app startup called Astro Technologies as VP of Marketing where she led the company to Series A funding and won the esteemed ProductHunt Golden Kitty award for mobile app of the year in 2017 – this startup looked a lot like the AI productivity apps popping up today, a few years too early.
- Emily then joined Carta as VP of Marketing where she grew the team from 2 to 30 and sat on the exec team and reported directly to the CEO. While there she co-authored a ‘gender gap in equity’ study which was featured in over 50 publications
- Emily then kickstarted her entrepreneurial path and started dabbling in Angel investing. She took First Round’s Angel Track which helped turn her investing hobby into a new career where she’s now invested in over 50 companies as an angel investor
- She joined Empower Work as a Board Member, an NPO providing text support for vulnerable workers facing challenging work situations
- In October 2020, Emily made the plunge and launched (market-1) MKT1 with her co-founder Kathleen, initially as an advisory business, then as a newsletter and community aimed at helping founders and marketers scale their teams and later as a Capital fund helping early-stage B2B startups.
The Secret to Picking Future Unicorn Startups
Emily shared her journey through the startup world, sprinkled with good timing and fortunate circumstances. She entered business school just after the 2008 financial crash, a tumultuous time that surprisingly set her up for success in the entrepreneurial realm. By the time she re-entered the workforce, the economy was bouncing back, providing a fertile ground for new ventures. Her departure from startups came just before the COVID-19 pandemic, sparing her from the subsequent turmoil many companies faced.
Her method for evaluating potential startups has evolved but is based on a simple principle: the importance of a solid product that the target audience would endorse, even if they wouldn’t use it themselves. Emily stresses the need for a product to be compelling to those it aims to serve, a criterion often overlooked by non-marketers. A great market and a capable team are also on her checklist, but a unique selling point for Emily is the company’s marketing strategy. She looks for what she now calls “marketing advantages,” such as a unique story, SEO potential, or network effects that could give a company an edge.
Emily’s first startup job was driven by her love for music, working at Ticketfly, where she was immersed in the scene she adored. This role merged her personal interests with professional opportunities, which was fulfilling but also a learning curve. It led her to pivot towards a more B2B focus, taking her to Asana. There, she saw early traction and a team capable of winning on multiple fronts, confirming her belief in the startup’s potential.
She advises marketers to think like investors when considering startup roles. It’s not just about a paycheck; it’s about believing in the product and the team. This mindset shift is crucial, especially as one’s career progresses and the stakes get higher. Understanding the company’s vision and its alignment with marketing is essential—not just for the company’s success, but for personal career growth as well.
Key takeaway: For marketers eyeing startup opportunities, it’s crucial to evaluate the company with a discerning eye: Is the product something people genuinely need and love? Is the market ripe for growth? Does the company understand and value marketing? These factors are not just important for the company’s success but are critical for marketers to ensure they invest their time wisely and contribute to a venture that grows and values their skills.
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Advancing Gender Equity in Venture Capital
At MKT1, Emily has taken a proactive approach to shaping the landscape of venture capital through a lens of equity and inclusion. She emphasizes the importance of diversifying investment not only as a moral imperative but as a strategic advantage. MKT1 actively sources deals from a variety of channels, prioritizing companies led by women, people of color, and underrepresented minorities. Emily believes these groups often outperform the average founders, bringing unique perspectives and solutions to the table.
Their commitment to diversity is evident in the composition of their fund. For a considerable period, the gender distribution among those holding equity has been evenly split, a rare achievement in the venture capital world. This balance also extends to the fund’s investors, many of whom are marketers, showcasing a diverse group of individuals backing their vision.
MKT1 doesn’t hold a formal mission statement on diversity; instead, they integrate these principles into the very fabric of their investment strategy. They aim to mirror the diversity of the market itself, ensuring the products they invest in are reflective of the consumers they serve. This intrinsic approach to diversity is part of what Emily describes as their ‘DNA’—a natural element of their operation.
Emily also collaborates with Empower Work, a support line for workers facing challenges in their jobs. This initiative primarily aids lower-income individuals, though it’s accessible to anyone needing guidance. Recognizing her own privileged position to be able to address injustices legally, Emily is committed to extending support to those who lack the means to challenge their adversities.
Key takeaway: Effective advocacy for diversity in the workplace extends beyond mere numbers. By embedding a commitment to equity into every facet of business operations—from investment strategies to community support—leaders can create profound, lasting change. Emily’s work illustrates how maintaining a balance in investment portfolios and supporting initiatives like Empower Work not only champions diversity but also enhances the overall business landscape.
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Fundamental Principles For Picking Martech Tools
Emily brings a unique dual perspective as both an investor and a marketer to the challenge of navigating the crowded martech landscape. When it comes to implementing new technologies, the allure of the latest tools can often lead to “shiny object syndrome,” where the excitement of potential overshadows practical application. However, Emily emphasizes the importance of discernment in choosing martech solutions that genuinely enhance both the marketer’s efficiency and the end-user experience.
Key to her approach is ensuring that any new tool adds real value without compromising the quality of interactions with prospects and customers. For example, using a tool that might inadvertently lower the quality of content or complicate the customer experience is a clear misstep. Instead, the focus should be on creating a seamless, frictionless experience for users while also fitting naturally into existing workflows. This balance is crucial in making strategic decisions that align with overall business goals and marketing strategies.
Emily also highlights the importance of aligning tools with the specific needs of a company’s go-to-market (GTM) strategy and audience. For instance, even if personalization is trending, it might not be necessary if it doesn’t fit into the company’s existing marketing strategy or if the target customer profile does not demand such customization. Instead, tools should be chosen based on their ability to enhance efficiency and effectiveness within the marketer’s specific context.
Investing in martech should be based on a clear understanding of how these tools contribute to the marketing strategy and improve the overall customer journey. This thoughtful approach ensures that investments in martech are not only justified but are also impactful, supporting both the marketing team’s operational needs and the strategic objectives of the business.
Key takeaway: Marketers should adopt a strategic approach to martech integration, focusing on tools that enhance efficiency and improve the customer experience without compromising content quality. This requires a clear understanding of the company’s GTM strategy and the specific needs of its audience, ensuring that every technology investment is aligned with broader business goals. This alignment is key to maximizing the impact of martech investments and avoiding the pitfalls of adopting technology for its own sake.
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Trusted Sources for Martech Recommendations
As an investor at the intersection of technology and marketing, Emily sees more martech solutions than most. She points out that her position allows her a unique perspective on the array of tools available, especially those tailored for B2B go-to-market strategies. Through her active engagement on platforms like LinkedIn and her newsletter, Emily has become a pivotal figure in recommending tools that not only meet high standards of efficacy but also authenticity.
She stresses that authenticity in her recommendations is non-negotiable. Emily only endorses tools that she or her close network have personally used and found beneficial. This approach ensures that her advice remains grounded in practical, real-world experience, which adds immense value to both marketers and founders alike. The rigorous vetting process includes having direct recommendations from trusted sources, which she believes is essential in maintaining credibility and trust with her audience.
Emily’s interactions on LinkedIn highlight a dynamic aspect of her engagement with martech. For instance, when seeking a B2B TikTok contractor, she received numerous responses, which not only aided her immediate needs but also provided her followers with a glimpse into the vibrant and responsive martech community. This interaction underscores the practical benefits of her approach—connecting real needs with real solutions in real-time.
Emily’s initiative extends beyond just tool recommendation. She is actively involved in shaping the discourse around new technologies in marketing, making her insights particularly valuable for those looking to stay ahead in the market. Her efforts to foster a community of informed marketers through her platforms are commendable and demonstrate her commitment to the advancement of the marketing field.
Key takeaway: Emily’s strategic use of LinkedIn and her newsletter to recommend vetted martech tools highlights the importance of authenticity and direct experience in influencing modern marketing strategies. Marketers can enhance their strategic decision-making by adopting a similarly rigorous approach to tool selection, ensuring that each tool aligns with their specific operational needs and industry standards.
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How to Master Internal Marketing and Advocate for Your Team
Emily highlights a crucial aspect of marketing that often goes unnoticed—the challenge of internal marketing within organizations. According to her, while crafting external marketing strategies might seem straightforward to seasoned professionals, explaining and demonstrating the value of marketing to other departments can be significantly more difficult. This internal advocacy is essential for marketers who need to secure buy-in for projects and initiatives from their non-marketing colleagues.
During a candid conversation, Emily shared anecdotes from her interactions with marketing leaders and her previous colleagues, emphasizing that the skills required for internal marketing are often overlooked yet critical. She noted that during a recent gathering with former team members, they discussed how impactful her insights on internal marketing had been, particularly concerning gaining organizational buy-in on marketing strategies. These conversations underscored the universal challenge marketers face: the need to effectively communicate and justify their role and its impact on the organization.
Emily also pointed out common misconceptions within companies about marketing’s scope and its needs, such as the necessity for a content management system for the company’s website. She stressed the importance of educating other departments about what marketing truly involves beyond common stereotypes. For example, she mentioned that many assume they understand the role of a product marketer without truly grasping what the position entails. This leads to a gap in understanding that marketers must bridge by tailoring their communication to the knowledge level of their audience.
To overcome these challenges, Emily advises marketers to apply the same strategies used in external marketing to internal communications. This involves understanding the “audience” within the company, adapting the message to suit their level of marketing knowledge, and eliminating jargon that might obscure the message. By simplifying communication and clearly defining roles and strategies, marketers can more effectively advocate for their departments and projects.
Key takeaway: Marketers must harness their expertise in audience engagement to improve internal communications within their organizations. By adopting a tailored approach that considers the specific understanding and biases of internal teams, marketers can effectively advocate for their strategies and initiatives. Simplifying jargon and focusing on educating colleagues about the true breadth and impact of marketing efforts will lead to better alignment and support across departments.
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Why the Ideal First Marketing Hire Is a Pi-Shaped Marketer
When asked about the ideal first marketing hire for startups, Emily advocates for a versatile yet specialized skill set. Her concept of the “pi-shaped” marketer, as opposed to the more traditional “T-shaped” marketer, emphasizes the need for expertise in multiple disciplines within marketing, yet with a focus on being highly skilled in one or two critical areas.
Emily explains that a pi-shaped marketer should possess deep knowledge in a primary area such as growth marketing or product marketing, be fairly competent in a secondary area, and have a basic understanding across the broader marketing spectrum. This blend allows them to adapt to the dynamic needs of startups where roles can be fluid and marketing demands can change rapidly. The metaphor of “fuel and engine” that she uses illustrates the synergy needed between content creation (fuel) and growth strategies (engine), ensuring that both elements are tailored to the audience and business model.
She emphasizes the importance of understanding different marketing functions—demand generation, inbound marketing, lifecycle marketing, and marketing operations—to effectively set strategies that align with the company’s goals. Her approach underscores the necessity of having a marketer who is not only a strategist but also capable of either executing plans or knowing when and how to bring in the right contractors for specialized tasks.
Emily’s perspective is particularly valuable in addressing the common misconceptions associated with growth marketing, which is often narrowly perceived as merely a tool for paid acquisitions or “growth hacking.” By redefining growth marketing into sub-teams, she clarifies the broad scope and strategic importance of these functions, advocating for a comprehensive understanding that spans beyond simplistic definitions.
Key takeaway: Pi-shaped marketers spike in two specific areas but are also solid across various marketing disciplines. They aren’t generalist, but are versatile enough to be able to adapt strategies effectively and manage both content and growth.
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Why You Should Manage Marketing Like a Product Team
Emily highlights an interesting approach in marketing by equating it to managing a product team. This analogy is profound because it shifts the traditional perception of marketing from merely serving sales to being a complex, self-sufficient entity crucial for a business’s holistic growth. She expresses concern that many still view marketing as a subordinate to sales, aimed only at fulfilling immediate sales targets. This misconception, she argues, limits the potential scope and impact of marketing.
Marketing, according to Emily, encompasses a range of disciplines that require a synergy similar to a product team, which includes engineers, designers, and project managers, among others. This multifaceted team is responsible for both short-term achievements and long-term strategic goals, mirroring the dual focus on immediate outputs and future feature developments in product management. By adopting a product team’s structure, marketing can more effectively plan, execute, and measure its initiatives, leading to better alignment with the overall business objectives.
Furthermore, Emily extends the product analogy to individual marketing components, such as the company’s website and content, which she describes as products themselves. This perspective encourages a more strategic approach to marketing planning, akin to how product teams prioritize feature developments and enhancements. Viewing each piece of content as a feature allows marketers to strategize on what to enhance, what to maintain, and what new ‘features’ to introduce, ensuring that each element aligns with the overarching business goals.
This holistic view not only simplifies the complexity inherent in marketing roles but also aids in strategic planning and execution. It underscores the importance of a well-rounded approach that balances creative and technical skills within the marketing team, thereby fostering a more integrated and effective marketing strategy.
Key takeaway: Marketers should view their roles and responsibilities through the lens of a product team, emphasizing multidisciplinary collaboration and strategic planning. By treating marketing elements as individual products, teams can adopt a more structured approach to campaign development and execution, mirroring successful product management practices.
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Hiring for Fuel, Engine and Foundations in Marketing
Emily delves into the complexities of workforce planning in marketing, emphasizing the necessity of strategic goal setting before determining the team’s composition. She draws an insightful parallel between marketing and product development, suggesting that just as product teams rely on a clear strategy and roadmap, marketing teams require a well-defined plan that outlines not only key performance indicators but also major projects and initiatives. This approach ensures that marketing efforts are not only aligned with immediate business objectives but also poised to address long-term goals.
The analogy extends to categorizing marketing roles into three functional areas: fuel, engine, and foundation. Emily explains that these categories help clarify the roles and responsibilities within the team, facilitating more effective recruitment and resource allocation. For instance, ‘fuel’ roles focus on content creation and direct marketing efforts, ‘engine’ roles pertain to growth and lifecycle marketing, and ‘foundation’ roles could include marketing operations or market research. This framework aids in identifying gaps in the team’s capabilities and planning for future needs.
Moreover, Emily advocates for a flexible approach to hiring, recognizing that the dynamic nature of marketing roles often requires adaptability in both planning and execution. She suggests that roles should be defined broadly enough to allow for changes as the team evolves, which not only accommodates the diverse skill sets of potential hires but also aligns with the changing needs of the organization.
Her insights into marketing workforce planning highlight the importance of a strategic, adaptable approach that mirrors the methodologies used in product development. By considering marketing as a complex system requiring diverse skills and flexible planning, organizations can better prepare to meet both current and future challenges.
Key takeaway: Effective workforce planning in marketing requires a strategic approach that aligns with the organization’s long-term goals and accommodates the dynamic nature of marketing roles. By conceptualizing marketing functions in terms of fuel, engine, and foundation, marketers can more clearly define roles, anticipate needs, and remain adaptable in a changing business environment. This strategic foresight is crucial for marketers looking to enhance their impact and ensure their initiatives drive sustained growth.
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What Didn’t Work in the Past Might be Viable Today
Emily highlights the adventurous spirit required for marketers to undertake “big bets” such as launching new initiatives or exploring uncharted territories in the marketing landscape. Her advice, grounded in a product development analogy, urges marketers to approach these ventures with a blend of vision, audience insight, and internal feedback. This multifaceted approach ensures that each big bet is not just a leap in the dark but a calculated move towards potential high returns.
She suggests a methodical strategy akin to how product teams test new features—start small and validate through experiments. For instance, before committing to building a full-fledged community platform, initiate smaller, manageable events to gauge interest and engagement levels. This step-by-step approach mitigates risk and builds a case for or against more significant investment based on real-world data and feedback.
Furthermore, Emily advocates for a framework within marketing that includes various types of goals: testing and experiments, project goals, and KPIs. This structured approach allows marketers to transition from small-scale tests to larger projects systematically, based on the success of initial experiments. It also accommodates the need for flexibility, recognizing that a successful test might not always translate into a successful large-scale implementation due to numerous variables like market conditions and internal capabilities.
The dialogue also addresses a common pitfall in startups: the reluctance to revisit strategies that previously failed. Emily challenges this mindset by reminding us that conditions, audiences, and technologies are in constant flux. What didn’t work in the past might now be viable due to changes in the market environment or advancements in technology.
Key takeaway: Marketers should embrace a strategic and experimental approach to making big bets, starting with small-scale tests to validate concepts before escalating their commitment. By continually evaluating the changing conditions and learning from past efforts, marketers can adapt their strategies to better align with current opportunities, thereby positioning themselves to capitalize on new trends and innovations effectively. This adaptability is essential for marketers aiming to maintain relevance and drive growth in an ever-evolving industry.
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Navigating Angel Investing in Today’s Market
Emily delves into the evolution of angel investing, reflecting on her experiences from the high valuation era of 2019-2020 to the present challenges and opportunities in the market. Her journey from a marketer to an angel investor illustrates the changing dynamics in fundraising and the entry points for new investors. According to Emily, the process of angel investing has become simultaneously more challenging and more exclusive, with tighter investment rounds and fewer participants.
Despite the perceived difficulties, Emily emphasizes that opportunities still exist for individuals willing to invest smaller amounts, particularly through syndicates like those found on AngelList. While these opportunities have diminished over the past few years, they have not disappeared entirely. She highlights the importance of adding value beyond financial contributions, especially for marketers with specialized skills such as SEO, which can be a significant asset to early-stage companies.
Emily’s advice to prospective angel investors is to leverage their unique skills to gain entry into investing. By positioning oneself as a valuable advisor in a specific area, one can justify smaller investment amounts and still participate in potentially lucrative opportunities. This approach not only lowers the financial barrier to entry but also enriches the investor’s experience and contribution to a startup’s growth.
She also points out that the landscape of angel investing might shift again, suggesting that the market’s current state is not static. Investors should stay informed and adaptable, ready to seize opportunities as they arise, even if they come in smaller, less conventional forms.
Key takeaway: For marketers exploring angel investing, consider leveraging your specialized skills to provide value to startups, which can compensate for smaller financial contributions. This strategy allows you to engage with investment opportunities effectively, even in a tighter funding environment, and positions you as a crucial asset to the growth and success of early-stage companies.
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Finding Balance and Happiness with Big Bets at Work and Life
Emily offers an insightful glimpse into her life, showcasing how her varied roles as a founder, newsletter writer, and angel investor contribute to her overall happiness and success. Her enthusiasm for her work is palpable, reflecting a deep-seated passion that aligns well with her analytical and creative skills. Emily attributes much of her contentment to finding a career that resonates with her talents and interests, an alignment that she considers crucial for anyone looking to derive joy from their professional life.
Despite the demands of her multifaceted career, Emily has mastered the art of maintaining balance by prioritizing efficiency and focusing on high-impact activities. She admits to working a lot but emphasizes her ability to complete tasks effectively, allowing her to reserve time for personal interests like live music and boating. Her approach to work-life balance involves making deliberate choices about where to invest her energy, ensuring that she excels in areas that matter most while acknowledging that it’s impossible to excel at everything.
Emily’s perspective on happiness in the workplace extends beyond mere job satisfaction; it involves a holistic view of personal and professional growth. She encourages others to pursue what they genuinely enjoy and to make strategic life adjustments that enhance their overall well-being. This philosophy has helped her navigate periods of inactivity due to health issues, reinforcing the importance of engaging in fulfilling work.
Her strategy includes setting “big bets”—key personal and professional goals that guide her decision-making and time allocation. This focused approach helps her maximize productivity and satisfaction, providing a template for others to follow in optimizing their own careers.
Key takeaway: Discovering and pursuing what genuinely motivates you is essential for long-term happiness and success. By focusing on your strengths and passions, you can achieve a satisfying balance between work and personal life, making strategic choices that align with your goals and values. This tailored approach allows for personal fulfillment and professional excellence, adaptable to various stages of your career.
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Episode Recap
Emily shared her rich experience in blending marketing fundamentals with strategic investment and startup growth. This episode is for marketers and early stage founders or investors. Whether you’re selecting a startup to join or invest in, integrating new martech tools, or advocating for marketing within your organization, Emily’s advice revolves around using your marketing expertise to make informed, strategic decisions.
Emily emphasized the significance of choosing startups wisely, suggesting marketers assess whether a product meets a genuine need, whether the market is ripe for growth, and if the startup values marketing. It’s about identifying where a marketer can add real value and grow alongside the business. She extends this scrutiny to martech tool selection, advocating for a rigorous evaluation to ensure that these tools align perfectly with a company’s broader business goals, thus enhancing efficiency without diluting content quality.
In addition to strategic insights on tool selection and investment, Emily delved into the crucial topic of building marketing teams within startups. She champions the hiring of “pi-shaped” marketers—individuals who are not only adept in a particular area of marketing but possess a broad set of complementary skills across the discipline. This multifaceted expertise allows them to swiftly adapt strategies, effectively manage both content and growth mechanisms, and respond to the multifarious challenges of scaling a startup. For those aiming to rise as marketing leaders, developing such a diverse skill set is essential. It prepares them to navigate and flourish in the startup ecosystem, where the ability to pivot and execute a wide range of marketing strategies can distinguish between stagnation and growth.
On the topic of internal advocacy and strategic workforce planning, Emily highlights the need for marketers to use their skills in audience engagement to improve internal communications. By simplifying jargon and focusing on educating colleagues about the full spectrum of marketing’s impact, marketers can foster better support and alignment across departments. She likened this approach to managing marketing like a product team, emphasizing structured campaign development and execution that mirrors successful product management practices.
Angel investing was another area where Emily provided actionable insights, encouraging marketers to leverage their specialized skills as a form of investment in startups. This approach allows marketers to embed themselves into the growth story of early-stage companies, becoming invaluable assets through more than just financial contributions. She also touched on the importance of maintaining diversity in investment portfolios, noting that such balance not only champions equity but also strengthens the overall business landscape.
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Intro music by Wowa via Unminus
Cover art created with Midjourney (check out how)
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