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What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with the lads from We’re Not Marketers.

Summary: When did everyone on LinkedIn suddenly become a GTM expert? The misfits from ‘We’re Not Marketers’ dive into this chaos, explaining why Go-to-Market strategy has become the most misused term in marketing. They share product marketing stories about rigid product launches, cross-functional chaos, and small test groups. They open up about their love and admiration for marketing operations folks, similar cross functional translators between tech and marketing and how martech can support message testing. We also explore the debate of who should have final word on messaging, PMMs or the channel SMEs. Join us for the laughs, stick around for the love between PMMs and martech.

In This Episode…

• Why Go to Market Strategy Has Become a Buzzword
• Who is Responsible for Operationalizing GTM
• The Role that PMMs and Marketing Ops Play in Alignment
• Who Should Own Product Adoption Metrics?
• Who Should Own Channel Messaging, PMMs or the Channel SME?
• How to Measure the Effectiveness of Marketing Messaging
• Boldness in Messaging and Promoting the Benefit of the Benefit
• Are Marketing Operations Pros Considered Marketers?

About the 3 Misfits

• All 3 of these gentlemen work for themselves as fractional PMMs
• Gab Bujold is based in Quebec city, Canada. He’s a messaging expert and also a marketing advisor for early-stage startups, he’s a former product marketer and 4-time solo marketer at various different brands and sports an incredible mustache
• Also joining us today is Zach Roberts is based in California, he worked in B2B SaaS sales for half a decade before pivoting to product marketing with a focus on enablement, he’s worked at big names like Dropbox, LinkedIn and Google. He’s a 2x recognized Product Marketing Influencer by PMA
• Last but certainly not least, we’re also joined by Eric Holland who’s based in Pennsylvania, he’s a product-led content pro also runs a retail apparel startup and is a recovering in-house product marketer. He’s the mastermind behind the creative AI skullies artwork of their podcast

What Does Modern GTM Even Mean Anymore?

Why Go to Market Strategy Has Become a Buzzword

The concept of go-to-market (GTM) strategy has entered peak buzzword territory in recent years. What was once a product marketing-specific term focused on launching new products or features has been hijacked by nearly every department under the sun. These days, everyone from sales and marketing ops to customer success is suddenly a “GTM expert” on LinkedIn. The term has become so diluted that it’s starting to lose its meaning entirely.

The transformation of GTM into a catch-all phrase stems largely from corporate politics and self-preservation. Teams across organizations are scrambling to attach themselves to GTM initiatives, fearing that being left out might signal their irrelevance. As Zach points out, there’s an underlying anxiety that not being involved in GTM somehow makes a team dispensable, leading to a kind of organizational FOMO that has stretched the term beyond recognition.

The reality is that successful GTM execution has always required coordinated effort across multiple teams. Product marketing traditionally orchestrates these initiatives, but they can’t execute alone. It takes sales for implementation, product teams for development, and marketing for awareness. The problem isn’t collaboration; it’s the current trend of every team claiming to be the primary GTM driver, creating confusion about who actually owns the strategy.

Eric makes a crucial distinction between “going to market” and “go-to-market strategy” that cuts through some of the noise. While the strategy might come from product marketing or revenue leadership, the execution involves multiple teams working together. The challenge is maintaining clear ownership of the strategy while preventing it from becoming another meaningless corporate buzzword that everyone claims expertise in.

Key takeaway: Organizations need to stop the free-for-all claiming of GTM expertise and return to clearly defined roles within the GTM process. Success depends on having centralized strategic ownership while enabling individual teams to excel in their specific GTM responsibilities, not turning every department into self-proclaimed GTM experts.

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Who is Responsible for Operationalizing GTM

Picture a chill Broadway production: everyone from lighting to sound plays a crucial role, but someone needs to direct the show. Product Marketing’s role in GTM execution presents a fascinating operational challenge. While multiple teams claim ownership over GTM initiatives, the real question isn’t about territorial control but about orchestrating complex product launches effectively.

The operational reality of GTM involves intricate coordination across specialized teams. Marketing and sales ops teams manage the technical infrastructure, configuring everything from CRM workflows to marketing automation. Lifecycle marketing teams often gatekeep new feature and product notification announcements and balance that with existing messages. Product marketing develops the strategy and messaging, while sales teams handle direct customer engagement. Each group brings essential expertise to the table, making territorial claims over “GTM Ops” not just unnecessary but counterproductive.

Gab’s makes a really good point that Product Marketing Managers excel at running small-scale experiments, gathering feedback, and iteratively refining go-to-market approaches. This methodology allows teams to validate strategies before full-scale deployment, reducing risk and improving outcomes. It’s not about owning GTM ops; it’s about facilitating successful product launches through methodical testing and collaboration.

You should view GTM operations as a collaborative framework rather than a power structure. PMMs serve as strategic conductors, coordinating efforts across teams while respecting each group’s expertise. When campaigns underperform, the root cause typically traces back to poor coordination or unclear direction, not technical execution. Success requires letting each team excel in their domain while maintaining a unified strategic vision.

Key takeaway: Focus on establishing clear operational frameworks where Product Marketing Managers guide strategy and testing, while specialized ops teams manage technical implementation. Success comes from collaboration and respect for expertise, not from claiming ownership over the entire GTM process.

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The Role that PMMs and Marketing Ops Play in Alignment

Prioritizing Product Marketing Requests vs Martech Roadmaps

There’s often a natural tension between PMMs who think every feature deserves a big email to everyone in the database and the martech or marketing ops team who has an existing roadmap and existing comms in place. New GTM initiatives don’t get to market on certain channels without the SME team converting words into code and automation. This creates a complex decision making process that often requires somewhat lame but important evaluation of business impact and strategic alignment.

Strategic prioritization requires product marketers to approach each situation with an analytical mindset focused on identifying the most pressing business needs. As Eric explains, the process resembles assessing multiple issues requiring attention but having limited resources to address them all simultaneously. The key becomes determining which initiative will deliver the most significant impact toward established organizational goals and objectives.

The reality of product marketing involves making difficult trade-offs between seemingly equally important initiatives. While new product launches naturally generate excitement and momentum, they must be weighed against the potential impact of operational improvements that are already on the martech roadmap like enhanced product analytics or refined lead scoring mechanisms. These behind the scenes projects often create foundational improvements that enable better execution of future go to market activities.

At the end of the day, most product launches have flexible timing – what’s critical is identifying the few releases that truly require strict deadlines. You have to keep an unbiased perspective grounded in data and projected business outcomes. Product marketers must evaluate each initiative’s potential impact on predetermined goals, timeline implications, and resource requirements. This analytical approach allows teams to make informed decisions about resource allocation while identifying opportunities to find middle ground solutions that advance multiple objectives simultaneously.

Key takeaway: When faced with competing priorities between GTM launches and marketing operations initiatives, remember that launch dates should be treated as guidelines rather than immutable deadlines, as most product releases can be rescheduled without significant business impact. Figure out which rare launches truly require rigid timing and which offer flexibility to ensure optimal product readiness.

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Product Marketing and Marketing Ops Function as Organizational Translators

This one’s for all the folks who spend their days serving as bridges between departments. Product marketers and marketing operations professionals share a distinct characteristic: they operate as organizational translators, existing in a space adjacent to traditional marketing while maintaining their own specialized focus.

Making the mothership come together is all about genuine curiosity about each team’s objectives. Zach illustrates this through a solid example from his product marketing experience, where a feature launch showed significant disconnects between product and sales teams. The situation highlighted how different departments can have vastly different priorities, even when working on the same initiative. By approaching the situation with curiosity rather than assumptions, you can leverage market data and sales insights to bridge these gaps and drive meaningful conversations about business impact.

This translator role needs both influence and positioning. Gab points out that understanding how different departments perceive your role significantly impacts your ability to drive alignment. The comparison to startup positioning is particularly apt; just as startups must carefully consider whether to create a new category or fit into an existing one, marketing operations and product marketing professionals must strategically position themselves within their organizations. Internal marketing and building relationships isn’t what everyone dreams of becoming a master at but you can’t hide from it forever. This positioning directly affects your ability to influence cross-functional initiatives and maintain productive relationships with other teams.

Key takeaway: Despite having a ton of stuff on your plate, cross-functional alignment success depends on approaching team discussions with genuine curiosity about objectives rather than assumptions. Focus on understanding each department’s goals and challenges before proposing self-serving solutions, while carefully managing how your role is perceived within the organization. Have fun, but do it while maintaining influence without becoming a service desk for other teams’ requests.

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Areas of Ownership Between Marketing and Product Teams

Who Should Own Product Adoption Metrics?

Product adoption sits at the intersection of product management, product marketing and lifecycle marketing, requiring a magical approach for optimal results. The traditional model of keeping product marketing separate from product development creates unnecessary friction and missed opportunities. Instead, product marketers should be deeply integrated into the product lifecycle, from initial discovery through launch and beyond, working in lockstep with product managers to drive meaningful adoption.

Consider the typical scenario where product marketing receives a finished product and must retrofit positioning and messaging. This approach inherently limits the potential for success, as product marketers find themselves scrambling to understand use cases secondhand rather than drawing from direct customer insights. When product marketing lacks involvement in early discovery phases, the resulting positioning often fails to resonate with target audiences, creating a cascade of challenges for revenue teams tasked with driving adoption.

Eric shared a cool example from his experience launching a product integration between his company’s platform and Gong, a sales conversation analytics tool. While the team successfully hit their adoption targets for the integration, they had also set pipeline generation goals, expecting the integration to attract new customers. In retrospect, Eric realized this was a strategic misstep. The integration’s primary value lay in enhancing the experience for existing customers rather than attracting new ones. This experience crystallized an important principle: product marketing goals should align with the product’s core purpose rather than trying to serve multiple, potentially conflicting objectives.

Product marketers bring a unique bird’s eye perspective to product development, synthesizing market insights with customer needs. This vantage point proves invaluable throughout the product lifecycle, particularly in setting realistic adoption goals and defining success metrics. By partnering closely with product managers, product marketers can ensure that adoption strategies reflect market realities and customer expectations, rather than arbitrary benchmarks disconnected from actual user behavior.

Key takeaway: Product marketing should share ownership of adoption metrics with product management and lifecycle marketing, everyone should be involved at the discovery phase. That being said, there’s room to further specify those metrics across teams based on milestones or specific channels and segments. Ultimately, it’s all about a deep understanding of customer needs derived from direct engagement rather than secondhand information.

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Who Should Own Channel Messaging, PMMs or the Channel SME?

If you’re a channel subject matter expert (SME) like email or push, or SEO or Meta ads… you’ve for sure had a few battles with a PMM who handed you a box of messaging and position and you needed more freedom to work with. Gab is a big fan of collaborative approach while maintaining PMM authority of the first draft, emphasizing that PMMs should create initial copy versions based on their research and market context. He warns against condescending attitudes, noting that fewer allies in a company leads to diminished influence and support during challenging times.

Gab’s view is that both teams should learn more about each other’s world. PMMs should make an effort in understanding channel specifics, suggesting they should create initial drafts even if they “suck.” This approach, he argues, demonstrates comprehension of positioning and messaging strategy, creating a foundation for collaboration with channel specialists. However, he stresses the vital importance of remaining open to expert feedback, particularly when channel specialists identify potential issues with deliverability or platform-specific requirements.

Eric is a bit more opinionated here. His belief is that if you call yourself a marketer, you should be able to write. He distinguishes clearly between internal messaging and customer-facing copy, asserting that while PMMs should own the core message, channel experts should control the final copy. Eric uses colorful examples to illustrate his point: if the core message is “keep doing things that work,” he believes channel specialists should have the freedom to transform that into engaging, platform-specific language that resonates with their audience.

Zach introduces a crucial overlooked element in this discussion: product reality. He points out that even the most polished channel specific messaging becomes problematic if the product cannot deliver on its promises. Using a cinematic analogy, he compares this to marketing drawing audiences to theaters for a disappointing film experience that is The Joker 2. This highlights the essential relationship between product capabilities and marketing messages, regardless of who controls the final copy.

Key takeaway: Channel specialists should respect the strategic groundwork laid by PMMs while confidently applying their expertise to optimize messaging for their specific channels. Success comes from combining PMM market research and positioning with channel-specific knowledge. Trust your expertise as a channel specialist to adapt messaging in ways that will resonate with your audience while maintaining the core value proposition established by the PMM.

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Testing Messaging and Adding a Sprinkle of Boldness

How to Measure the Effectiveness of Marketing Messaging

There’s a few different philosophies and frameworks when it comes to message testing. Lots of product teams rely on qualitative UX research tools that essentially use anonymous user feedback, random users, existing outside your ideal customer profile (ICP). The concern here is that obviously this may lead teams astray from their core market’s actual needs and preferences.

The foundation of effective message testing is about clear parameters around the target audience before any testing begins. Gab shares that current research among product marketing managers shows a striking self-assessment score of 2.25 out of 5 regarding messaging effectiveness, indicating widespread acknowledgment of mediocre performance in this critical area. This lackluster score stems from insufficient frameworks, unclear ideal customer profiles, and inadequate resources dedicated to thorough testing processes.

Volume plays a crucial role in message testing validity. While A/B testing remains a popular buzzword, its effectiveness depends entirely on having sufficient data to draw meaningful conclusions. Different messages often don’t yield large minimal detectable effects (MDE) so you often require a large sample size to get any kind of confident results. Success metrics should combine qualitative elements with quantitative indicators such as response rates, meeting conversions, and engagement metrics. Without this comprehensive approach, teams risk conducting tests that yield no actionable insights.

Gab also shared a particularly enlightening example that emerged from a partner-sourced opportunities analysis. Initial data showed a 30% win rate, seemingly acceptable until contextualized against industry benchmarks indicating partner-sourced opportunities typically achieve 50% higher win rates than standard inbound leads. This revelation highlights the critical importance of understanding what specific insights teams seek to gain from their testing efforts, rather than simply gathering data for its own sake.

Zach chimes in about data driven and how most people aren’t really data literate. Many PMMs pride themselves on being “data-driven” simply because they have access to Salesforce dashboards or SQL reports, but access to data alone doesn’t guarantee meaningful analysis or strategic decision-making. This false confidence in data literacy creates blind spots that can severely impact business outcomes. Teams frequently launch A/B tests or implement tracking mechanisms without first establishing what specific questions they’re trying to answer or what insights they hope to gain. 

Key takeaway: Message testing effectiveness requires three essential elements: a clearly defined ideal customer profile, sufficient data volume for statistical significance, and predetermined success metrics that combine both qualitative and quantitative indicators. Before launching any message testing initiative, teams should explicitly define what insights they aim to gather and how these insights will inform strategic decisions.

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Boldness in Messaging and Promoting the Benefit of the Benefit

Product marketing often falls into a tepid middle ground, particularly in B2B technology. Landing pages blur together in a sea of buzzwords, promising AI-powered solutions and streamlined insights without communicating genuine value. This widespread hesitation to take bold stances creates a significant opportunity for marketers willing to break from convention and speak directly to their customers’ deepest needs.

The concept of marketing “the benefit of the benefit” represents a powerful shift in how companies can connect with their audience. Eric, a seasoned product marketer, shares his experience working with a Dropbox alternative for the entertainment industry. Rather than focusing solely on technical capabilities, their messaging addressed the profound impact on video editors’ lives. The real value wasn’t just uploading large files; it was enabling professionals to finish work at reasonable hours and reclaim their personal time.

This approach demonstrates the importance of understanding the emotional core of customer problems. When a video editor struggles with file transfers for 19 hours straight, the primary pain point isn’t technical efficiency; it’s the toll on their quality of life. By acknowledging these deeper implications, companies can craft messaging that resonates on a fundamentally human level. This strategy proves particularly effective in B2B contexts where marketing often skews overly logical and feature-focused.

Product marketers frequently constrain themselves by prioritizing logic over emotional impact. While B2C brands regularly tap into emotional messaging, B2B companies tend to play it safe with generic value propositions. However, those willing to take calculated risks in their positioning, pricing, and messaging strategy often find themselves standing out in a crowded market. This boldness creates memorable brand experiences that speak directly to customer aspirations and frustrations.

Key takeaway: World class product marketing is miles ahead of feature lists and technical specs, it aims to truly address fundamental human needs, or the human benefit of the product benefit. By focusing on things humans actually care about like better work-life balance or peace of mind, you create more compelling, differentiated messaging that resonates with your target audience. The most successful marketers balance bold, emotionally resonant positioning with clear value communication.

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Martech Pros Are Wizards, Not Marketers

Marketing ops professionals are wizards of the marketing world, there’s no other way to put it. Their specialized skillset combines technical prowess with data manipulation capabilities that set them apart from traditional marketers. When marketing teams like product marketing interface with marketing operations specialists, the fundamental differences in their approaches and mindsets become immediately apparent.

All 3 Misfits agree, the disconnect often surfaces in day-to-day interactions between marketers and marketing operations teams. Marketers might request insights with the casual approach of creating a Pinterest board, while marketing operations professionals think in terms of data architecture, system integrations, and technical workflows. This misalignment in communication styles and expectations creates friction that hampers productivity and mutual understanding.

Marketing operations specialists function more as technical architects than creative marketers. Their expertise lies in constructing and maintaining the complex systems that power modern marketing initiatives. As one marketing professional observes, these “data wizards” regularly accomplish tasks that leave traditional marketers amazed and wondering, “How did you do that?” Their ability to transform abstract marketing requirements into functional technical solutions showcases their unique value proposition.

The relationship between marketing and marketing operations teams requires a specialized communication approach. Rather than discussing creative concepts or campaign ideas, effective collaboration demands precise technical specifications and clearly defined objectives. Marketing operations professionals excel at translating marketing aspirations into actionable technical requirements, but they need concrete parameters rather than abstract creative direction.

Key takeaway: Marketing operations professionals are not marketers. They possess a rare and valuable blend of technical acumen and marketing sensibility. While developers excel at pure coding and designers master creative expression, marketing operations wizards uniquely bridge both worlds. Embrace your position as a technical polyglot who can speak the language of data, systems, marketing, and business impact; this multifaceted fluency represents your superpower in modern marketing organizations.

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Work Life Balance Strategies From Top Product Marketers

Finding harmony between professional success and personal fulfillment challenges even the most accomplished product marketers. Three seasoned professionals share their distinct approaches to maintaining equilibrium while juggling multiple roles, from consulting and podcasting to entrepreneurship and family life.

Eric emphasizes the importance of energy management in his work choices. He deliberately structures his consulting business around energizing projects and collaborative partnerships. Most importantly, he protects his personal time fiercely, particularly dedicating weekends to Christmas activities with his son. His provocative advice? “Delete Slack from your phone,” a suggestion that sparked friendly debate among his colleagues about professional boundaries in the digital age.

For Zach, rollerblading provides essential mental space from the intensity of product marketing and podcast production. This unconventional choice draws curious looks, he admits with amusement, noting that people often do double-takes seeing “a pretty big dude on rollerblades.” Whether cruising through street tunnels during San Francisco’s legendary 12-mile night rides or adapting to Minnesota’s snowy terrain, this active meditation helps him break free from the “always on” mentality that plagues many marketing professionals.

Gab brings a philosophical perspective influenced by stoicism and gratitude practices learned from Zach. He employs a personal “fun meter” to evaluate professional opportunities, ranking projects on a scale that helps prioritize energizing work. However, he acknowledges a crucial truth often overlooked in work-life balance discussions: “Life is not always fun, and that’s okay.” His solution combines mindful nature walks, strong relationships with his podcast co-hosts who “talk every day,” and regular reflection on his privileged position in life.

Key takeaway: Work-life balance emerges from intentional choices that energize rather than drain. Each professional finds their unique path, whether through strict digital boundaries, physical activity, or philosophical frameworks. The common thread? Creating dedicated space for personal restoration while maintaining genuine connections with trusted colleagues who understand both professional and personal challenges. Success comes not from perfect balance but from authentic integration of work and life on your own terms.

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Episode Recap

WTF does GTM even mean anymore? Everyone on LinkedIn is treating Go-to-Market strategy like a potluck where everyone brings their own definition. The misfits from We’re Not Marketers explained why this causes absolute chaos. Companies need guardrails, folks. GTM works when you have clear strategic ownership at the center while letting specialized teams rock their specific parts.

We talk about product launches, and how most teams treat every launch date like it’s carved in stone, but that’s fundamentally wrong. The smart players understand that launch dates are guidelines that serve the product, not the other way around. Knowing which rare launches actually need rigid timing? That’s the truth no product manager wants you to know about. 

Product Marketers have a ton of respect for marketing ops. They think we’re unique creatures in our industry. Similar to PMMs, they don’t think marketing ops folks are marketers. We’re translators who speak multiple dialects of business, from hardcore database architecture to nuanced marketing strategy. That’s incredibly rare and valuable.

We also veer into message testing and how you need three things working together: crystal-clear customer profiles (not just vague personas), enough data to actually mean something (sorry, your test group of 12 people doesn’t cut it), and success metrics that capture both the numbers and the human element. Without all three, you’re just guessing with extra steps.

If you’re wrestling with product marketers or trying to make sense of cross-functional teams AND you’re in the mood for a few laughs, you’ll want to catch the full episode.

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Follow the Misfits👇

• Gab Bujold
• Zach Roberts
• Eric Holland
• We’re Not Marketers

✌️

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Intro music by Wowa via Unminus
Cover art created with Midjourney (check out how)

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