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What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Sam Oh, VP of Marketing at Ahrefs.

Summary: Sam takes us on a masterclass covering SEO fundamentals, evolving search behaviors, AI in content marketing, refreshing attribution thoughts and work-life balance strategies. He advises sticking to proven SEO fundamentals and understanding search intent to meet audience needs. As search behavior evolves with tools like ChatGPT, he highlights the need for a diversified strategy across multiple platforms. He advocates for thoughtful AI integration to enhance research and streamline content creation. Finally, Sam shares Ahrefs’ approach of prioritizing product quality and user-centric content over detailed attribution models, focusing on broad success indicators for effective decision-making and a fulfilling professional life.

Jump to a Section

• SEO Experts Need to Stop Obsessing Over Algorithm Updates
• SEO Is Here to Stay Despite Generative AI
• How Content Marketers Can Stay Relevant with AI
• Understanding Search Intent in SEO
• Shifting Search Behavior with ChatGPT and Google
• Expanding SEO Beyond Google
• Rethinking Attribution in Marketing
• Google’s Core Update and the Role of AI Content

About Sam

• As a fresh Toronto grad out of University, Sam started a service based ecommerce site and got into black hat SEO
• He grew traffic to this site and eventually sold it, this led Sam to “retire” – briefly – before experimenting with niche sites – he had one of those also acquired
• He also built an Amazon and Ebay business, where he would buy pallets of return goods from big merchandise stores and started a refurbishing center and reselling those goods online while sharpening his SEO skills
• He founded Money Journal where he published long form guides to help entrepreneurs grow their traffic and drive revenue
• This naturally led Sam to co-founding a successful SEO and digital agency… but after a while, he was on kid number two and realized he wanted to leave the hustle lifestyle
• He tried to get Ahrefs as a client for his agency by applying for a job and trying to turn it into a contract basis but in the end they won out and turned Sam into an employee
• He started without a title and was just asked to create educational videos and he turned that into as Director of Product Education and today he’s Sam is VP of Marketing at Ahrefs

Why Entrepreneurs Need to Rethink Work Life Balance

Sam’s path to Ahrefs was anything but traditional. Instead of following the common route of balancing entrepreneurial ventures with full-time roles, he fully immersed himself in starting businesses. From e-commerce to marketplace experiments, he thrived on innovation and problem-solving. But the relentless grind eventually took its toll, especially after a significant setback with Google’s Penguin update on his first e-commerce site.

As he clocked in 16-17 hour days, the birth of his second child prompted a shift in priorities. The thought of missing out on his children’s lives pushed Sam to rethink his approach. Was he destined to work endlessly or could he find a way to balance family and career? This question became pivotal as he sought more meaningful work-life integration.

Sam’s connection with Ahrefs began as a client pursuit. After months of discussions with Tim Soulo, they decided to collaborate. Initially, Sam held onto his agency, unsure of the future. However, the move to Ahrefs proved to be an excellent match. The company offered him full autonomy and creative control, backed by substantial budgets and resources.

At Ahrefs, Sam feels a strong sense of ownership. The company’s culture of trust and freedom aligns perfectly with his entrepreneurial spirit. This environment allows him to apply his skills effectively, achieving professional success without sacrificing personal fulfillment.

Key takeaway: Entrepreneurs often face the challenge of overcommitting to their ventures at the expense of personal life. Reassess priorities and seek roles that align with your values and lifestyle. Find work that offers autonomy and creative freedom so you can prioritize professional success and personal fulfillment. 

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SEO Experts Need to Stop Obsessing Over Algorithm Updates

Sam addresses the constant flux in the SEO world. His advice is refreshingly simple: focus on what works. Many SEO consultants, like the one asking the question, find themselves overwhelmed by the relentless updates and algorithm changes. Sam suggests that if your current strategies are effective, there’s no need to chase every new development.

For those engaging in practices clearly against Google’s guidelines, staying updated is crucial. However, for most people working on technical SEO—handling internal linking, crawling, and similar tasks—the updates can be more noise than necessity. The key is to concentrate on proven methods and adjust only when a significant change directly impacts your work.

Sam likens this to the hype around ChatGPT, where exaggerated claims cause unnecessary panic. He points out that this noise can lead to irrational fears, such as interns doubting their career choices. Instead of getting caught up in every new trend, it’s better to stay grounded and focus on tangible results.

Ultimately, Sam’s approach is to avoid the hysteria surrounding new updates and technologies. He emphasizes the importance of sticking to solid SEO practices and avoiding the distractions that come with every new development.

Key takeaway: Focus on what works and avoid getting caught up in every SEO update. Don’t let every minor change disrupt your workflow. Concentrate on proven strategies and adapt only when necessary. 

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SEO Is Here to Stay Despite Generative AI

Sam doesn’t believe SEO is dying anytime soon. The need to sort and index information isn’t going away. Whether it’s Google, YouTube, Pinterest, or Reddit, every platform with a search feature relies on SEO. Despite the industry’s perennial claims of its demise, SEO remains crucial for organizing and optimizing content across the internet.

He addresses the divide within the SEO community: those who adhere to white hat tactics and those who dabble in black hat methods. The latter often tarnish the industry’s reputation. Despite this, the fundamentals of SEO—technical optimization, quality content, and understanding search intent—continue to hold strong. Sam compares the scenario to the stock market, with pessimists always predicting crashes. He attributes some of the criticism to frustrations with search results often filled with copycat content, which he sees as a consequence of optimizing for search intent.

People tend to blame SEOs when they see repetitive content in search results. Sam explains that this is a result of everyone trying to match search intent, which can lead to similar content being ranked. He acknowledges that this might cause users to think SEO is at fault, but he views it as part of the game. SEOs are tasked with demonstrating to Google that their page is the best result for a query, often within the constraints of Google’s guidelines.

Sam is confident that SEO won’t be replaced soon. While AI and other technologies might change aspects of the industry, the core need for SEO remains. The industry will continue to evolve, but the fundamental skills and strategies of SEOs will stay relevant.

Key takeaway: SEO remains essential as long as search engines exist. Technical optimization, quality content creation, and understanding search intent are timeless strategies that remain effective despite algorithm changes and AI advancements.

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How Content Marketers Can Stay Relevant with AI

Sam argues that SEO and content marketing are here to stay, even with the rise of AI. The key to thriving lies in effort, experience, and experimentation. Ryan Law’s article on this topic resonates with Sam, who emphasizes these principles for standing out in a crowded field.

Effort is paramount. Understanding your audience and delivering precisely what they need sets you apart. When Sam started creating videos at Ahrefs, he dedicated three years to making SEO concepts digestible. This relentless focus on clarity turned complex topics into accessible knowledge, building a loyal audience. The takeaway? Invest significant effort into knowing your audience and simplifying your message.

Experimentation is equally vital. Sam shifted from straightforward tutorials to storytelling, embedding experiments and sharing results. This pivot led to better retention and more engaged viewers. For example, he tested various presentation styles and formats, learning which resonated most with his audience. By continuously trying new approaches and analyzing outcomes, you can keep your content fresh and compelling.

Experience grows from practice and embracing failures. Sam stresses the importance of reviewing each content piece, scrutinizing where viewers drop off, and making adjustments. This iterative process involves obsessing over feedback and refining the content accordingly. He mentions spending hours dissecting why a specific video segment lost viewers, leading to more polished and engaging future videos. This meticulous approach builds experience, helping you hone your craft over time.

Sam believes that future-proofing in content marketing, particularly in an AI-driven world, involves a mix of hard work, constant experimentation, and learning from each step. The landscape might shift, but these foundational principles remain critical.

Key takeaway: To excel amidst AI advancements, dedicate significant effort to know your audience intimately and tailor your content to their preferences. Experiment with different formats and storytelling techniques to discover what resonates most, and continuously refine your approach based on feedback and performance data.

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Understanding Search Intent in SEO

Sam highlights that true SEO mastery lies in understanding user intent behind queries. It’s not just about creating content that ranks but knowing what people are searching for at different stages of their journey. For instance, when someone searches for “how to grow grass for your lawn,” it’s clear they’re a beginner. A professional landscaper wouldn’t search for basic information like this. Think of it like following a treasure map: the searcher’s intent guides them to the exact information they need, just as a map leads an explorer to hidden treasure.

Queries reveal much about the searcher. Beginners ask questions like “which type of fertilizer is best?” or “when should I plant grass seed?” These questions indicate a need for basic, straightforward information. On the other hand, a professional might search for “how to raise soil pH by 0.4%,” reflecting a need for more advanced, specific knowledge.

Sam uses a practical example: a beginner landscaper searching for “how to grow grass for your lawn.” This query tells us the user is new to landscaping. They don’t need advanced techniques; they need simple, actionable advice. Questions like “which type of fertilizer is best?” or “when should I plant grass seed?” further confirm their beginner status. In contrast, a professional landscaper would search for more specific queries like “how to raise soil pH by 0.4%,” which indicates a deeper level of expertise.

The SERP (Search Engine Results Page) also provides insights. Features like “People Also Ask” boxes give clues about the profile of the searcher. For example, seeing a question like “how do you grow grass for beginners?” suggests the audience is looking for simple, easy-to-understand guidance. They don’t want complex, technical content but practical, actionable advice.

Sam explains that by spending extra time profiling who is searching for a particular query, SEOs can tailor their content more effectively. Understanding the audience’s needs and providing content that meets those needs can improve user experience, increase clicks, and enhance engagement. This approach not only helps rank higher but also creates more meaningful interactions with the audience.

Key takeaway: Successful SEO goes beyond keywords. Understanding the intent behind queries and tailoring content to meet those needs is crucial. By focusing on what the audience truly wants, SEOs can create valuable, engaging content that stands out.

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Shifting Search Behavior with ChatGPT and Google

Sam observes that search behavior is evolving with the integration of tools like ChatGPT. While Google remains a primary search engine, ChatGPT offers specific, tailored answers that are often more useful for detailed queries. For instance, when Sam wanted to know whether to dethatch or aerate his lawn first, ChatGPT provided clear, actionable advice, unlike the general results often found on Google.

This shift highlights a broader trend: people are becoming more digitally literate and specific in their searches. Sam notes that many searches have become navigational, with users looking for exact locations or specific brands. Instead of generic searches, people now prefer detailed, personalized responses. For instance, instead of searching “diet plan” on Google and getting broad results, users can ask ChatGPT for a customized diet considering their allergies and weight goals.

Sam points out that this change is subtle but significant. If one examines their search history over the years, a clear shift toward navigational searches is evident. Instead of typing general queries, users now search for precise terms like “grass seed Home Depot” or “how to grow grass Reddit.” This specificity stems from users’ familiarity with the internet and their preferred content sources.

Despite the rise of AI tools, Google remains indispensable for certain types of searches. When looking for local services, product reviews, or specific brand information, Google and other platforms like Amazon and YouTube are still the go-to sources. Sam emphasizes that while ChatGPT is excellent for personalized, detailed queries, Google excels in providing comprehensive, navigational information.

The integration of AI tools like ChatGPT is reshaping search behavior. Users now seek more specific, tailored information and rely on a variety of platforms to meet their diverse needs.

Key takeaway: Search behavior is evolving with the rise of AI tools like ChatGPT. Users now seek specific, tailored information, making tools like ChatGPT valuable for detailed queries, while Google remains essential for navigational searches and comprehensive information. Adapt your search strategies to leverage the strengths of both platforms.

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Expanding SEO Beyond Google

Sam believes that SEO should have always been about reaching audiences across multiple platforms, not just Google. He recalls the early days of online marketing where ranking for product names was enough to generate sales without much effort in educating or engaging the audience. However, the landscape has evolved. Today, people search on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, diversifying their information sources.

SEO on Google remains essential, but Sam emphasizes the importance of diversification. He notes that people now need multiple touchpoints before making a purchase decision. The number of required touchpoints has grown so much that attribution has become nearly impossible to measure accurately. It’s not just about the last touch anymore; it’s about the cumulative effect of being present across various platforms.

Sam shares an example of how a potential customer might come across Ahrefs. They might hear about it on a podcast, see a tweet, notice it at a conference, or observe someone using it. This multitude of touchpoints makes it challenging to pinpoint what specifically led to a conversion, highlighting the need for a broad presence.

Google SEO still offers significant ROI through organic traffic for high-intent queries. It’s not a “set it and forget it” approach, but once a page is ranking well, it can drive consistent traffic. However, given the changing nature of search behavior, focusing solely on Google is insufficient. SEOs must adapt to be visible wherever their audience might search for information.

Key takeaway: SEO must go beyond Google to include various platforms where audiences search for information. Diversification across multiple touchpoints increases visibility and engagement, making it essential for modern SEOs to adapt and expand their strategies.

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Rethinking Attribution in Marketing

When asked about Ahrefs’ unconventional approach to attribution, Sam explains that it stems from the top. Dimitri, the founder and CEO, challenged the necessity of detailed attribution models. This perspective was initially difficult for Sam, especially coming from an agency background where clients demanded clear metrics linking efforts to revenue.

Sam points out that attribution models often have flaws and can mislead decision-making with bad data. Ahrefs’ approach focuses on the broader picture: if revenue is increasing, their strategies must be effective. Instead of chasing perfect attribution, they prioritize product development and creating valuable content. This approach minimizes time spent on analyzing potentially flawed data and maximizes effort on improving the product and content.

Over time, Sam adjusted to this mindset, understanding that the product’s quality drives long-term success. Ahrefs concentrates on how their content fits into users’ journeys and solves their problems. This user-centric approach ensures that their content naturally converts without the need for detailed attribution.

Sentiment analysis plays a significant role at Ahrefs. They observe positive feedback on platforms like Twitter, where users frequently praise their content. This positive sentiment, coupled with rising revenue, indicates their strategy is working. Sam emphasizes that focusing on sentiment and user feedback can provide more meaningful insights than traditional attribution models.

Key takeaway: Ahrefs’ success highlights the value of prioritizing product quality and user-centric content over detailed attribution models. By focusing on broad indicators of success, like revenue trends and user sentiment, marketers can make more effective decisions without getting bogged down by potentially misleading data.

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Google’s Core Update and the Role of AI Content

The Impact of Overcompensation on Niche Sites

Sam feels that Google’s recent core update targeting AI-generated content reflects the search giant’s tendency to overcompensate when things seem to get out of control. With a new AI content generation tool emerging almost weekly, Google’s response reminds Sam of the aggressive measures taken during the Penguin update era, where even legitimate sites were caught in the crossfire of link spam penalties.

This overcompensation has led to many high-quality niche affiliate sites being unfairly penalized. Sam believes this is just Google being Google, often creating collateral damage when it swings its enforcement hammer. He advises against panicking, such as disavowing links or pruning content without clear reasons, which might inadvertently cause more harm than good. Instead, he suggests a wait-and-see approach to better understand the long-term effects of the update.

Using AI to Enhance Content Quality

Sam is convinced that AI-generated content is here to stay, regardless of Google’s actions. The issue lies not with AI itself but with how it is used. Many people misuse AI by relying on single prompts to generate entire articles, resulting in subpar content easily flagged by algorithms. In contrast, Sam uses AI to enhance his research process, speeding it up significantly and improving the quality of the content he produces.

For instance, Sam finds that AI can outperform him in specific tasks like winning featured snippets. By allowing AI to handle these parts, he ensures better content for users. He stresses that AI should be seen as a tool to augment human capabilities, not replace them. This perspective is crucial as AI technology rapidly evolves, becoming an indispensable part of content creation workflows.

Shifting Tides in Freelance SEO Land

Sam predicts a significant shift in the freelance writing industry due to the rise of AI. He envisions a future where freelance writers transition into AI operators, mastering how to effectively integrate AI into content creation. This involves more than just prompt engineering; it’s about understanding where AI can add the most value and using it to its full potential. Sam emphasizes that those who adapt to these changes will be ahead of the curve, whereas those clinging to traditional methods may fall behind.

He also shares an anecdote from his recent video titled “I Use ChatGPT to Rank Number One in Google in One Hour,” which some viewers labeled as clickbait. They misunderstood the role of AI in content creation, thinking it meant fully automated, single-prompt articles. Sam clarifies that AI, when used correctly, involves a more interactive and iterative process. For example, he uses AI to generate relevant examples and enhance his scripts, significantly improving the final output.

Key takeaway: Google’s core update underscores the need for thoughtful AI integration in content creation. Avoid relying on AI for fully automated content generation; instead, use it to enhance and accelerate your research and writing processes. Embrace AI as a collaborative tool to produce higher quality content and stay ahead in the evolving digital landscape.

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Fighting Burnout and Finding Balance with Routine

When asked about maintaining happiness and success in his career, Sam emphasizes the importance of self-awareness. With millions of views on YouTube each year, he acknowledges the presence of both supportive fans and critical trolls. Sam handles this by distinguishing between opinions that matter and those that don’t. He values feedback from his family, friends, and loved ones while disregarding negative comments that don’t contribute constructively.

This mindset helps Sam stay grounded and resilient. He enjoys engaging with constructive criticism but remains unfazed by baseless negativity. This approach prevents burnout, a common issue for many content creators who struggle with public scrutiny. By maintaining a clear sense of self and focusing on meaningful feedback, Sam navigates the challenges of being in the public eye without compromising his mental well-being.

For achieving balance, Sam highlights the significance of health and routine. Recently, he has become obsessed with optimizing his daily schedule. Initially resistant to routines, preferring spontaneity, he now sees the value in planning his days meticulously. This shift has allowed him to incorporate work, family time, golf, and workouts into his daily life, leading to a more balanced and fulfilling lifestyle.

Sam shares that he started using printable hourly calendars to structure his days. This practice has helped him find time for all his priorities, making his life feel more balanced. Waking up at 5 AM has become a crucial part of this routine, enabling him to accomplish more throughout the day. By embracing a structured approach, Sam has improved his overall happiness and well-being.

Key takeaway: Achieving work-life balance and maintaining happiness in a busy career requires self-awareness and a structured approach to daily routines. By focusing on meaningful feedback and optimizing schedules, individuals can lead balanced and fulfilling lives.

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Episode Recap

Balancing a thriving career and personal life is a challenge many face, and Sam’s journey to Ahrefs offers invaluable insights. His story highlights the importance of finding a workplace that values autonomy and creativity, allowing for a harmonious blend of professional and personal life. Sam’s experience underscores the need for a supportive environment where innovation flourishes and work-life balance is not just a goal but a reality.

In the wild west of SEO, Sam emphasizes sticking to what works instead of chasing every new update. While staying informed is important, the fundamentals—technical optimization and quality content—remain essential. Understanding search intent means grasping what the audience truly wants and tailoring content to meet those needs. This keeps strategies effective and reduces stress from constantly chasing trends.

Search behavior is evolving with tools like ChatGPT. Sam points out that while Google is crucial for navigational searches, AI tools are valuable for specific, detailed queries. This shift requires a strategy that leverages both platforms, ensuring comprehensive and tailored information. Diversification across multiple touchpoints is essential today, as audiences no longer rely solely on Google. Modern SEOs must expand their reach to various platforms where users search for information.

On AI in content marketing, Sam stresses thoughtful integration. Rather than using AI for fully automated content generation, he advocates leveraging it to enhance research and streamline processes. This ensures AI serves as a collaborative tool, augmenting human creativity and producing higher quality content. Google’s recent core update targeting AI-generated content further emphasizes the need for balanced, thoughtful integration.

Finally, Sam’s perspective on attribution is wildly refreshing. By prioritizing product quality and user-centric content over detailed attribution models, Ahrefs focuses on broad indicators of success like revenue trends and user sentiment. This strategy allows for effective decision-making without getting bogged down by potentially misleading data.

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Intro music by Wowa via Unminus
Cover art created with Midjourney (check out how)

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