132: Ashleigh Johnson: Tales of a Marketing Technologist from Microsoft

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What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Ashleigh Johnson, Marketing Technologist at Microsoft.

Summary: Ashleigh gives us a glimpse into the enterprise world of martech, and it might not be what you’re expecting. She emphasizes embracing the unexpected by seeking diverse roles and rotational programs. Building a personal network within large organizations like Microsoft is crucial for navigating corporate silos. Curiosity and people skills, including shadowing colleagues and effective communication, are paramount. Ashleigh highlights the need for robust documentation and the strategic use of AI for routine tasks to boost productivity. Finally, she advocates for marketers to lead AI deployment, ensuring flexibility and innovation by empowering tool owners to make technology-driven decisions.

Jump to a Section

• Navigating Martech Silos at Giant Corporations
• Why Microsoft’s Fast-Paced Culture Beats the Slow Corporate Myth
• Why Curiosity Outranks Experience in Martech Careers
• Why Soft Skills Matter More Than Tech Know-How
• Why Poor Documentation Is Killing Your Martech Efficiency
• Marketers’ Hidden Fear of AI and Why You Need to Overcome It
• Building Effective Lead Scoring Systems
• Why Obsessing Over Every Click in Marketing Attribution Is a Mistake

About Ashleigh

• Ashleigh started her career at Trend Micro, a global cybersecurity company as a Sales and Marketing Associate with rotations as a Lead Qualification Rep, then a Marketing Coordinator and finally a marketing Ops and Automation associate
• Eventually she would get promoted to Marketing Automation Manager where she was responsible for all things building, QA and campaigns across a variety of martech
• She then took on the role of Senior Marketing Operations Manager at Cornerstone OnDemand, a talent experience platform where she rolled out a Content Intelligence tool and a Webinar engagement platform
• Today Ashleigh is Marketing Technologist at Microsoft on their Platform Operations team where she strategizes and consults on how the martech stack is used across different workstreams of the business

Embracing Openness in Marketing Careers

Ashleigh highlights the significance of being open-minded in the marketing industry. She reflects on her early career, noting that she had no idea what martech was when she started. College had prepared her for traditional marketing roles—branding, PR, content management—not martech. She envisioned a straightforward path in these areas but ended up somewhere entirely different, like discovering a hidden gem in a sandstorm.

Her entry into martech came by chance, thanks to a rotation program at Trend. This experience unveiled a whole new side of marketing she hadn’t considered. Ashleigh stresses that there’s much more to marketing than what college teaches. She urges young professionals and students to stay open to various roles and experiences.

Ashleigh advises against the narrow approach of targeting only specific job types based on college education. She encourages a broader perspective, exploring different facets of marketing, and being receptive to opportunities that might initially seem outside one’s defined path. This openness can lead to surprising and rewarding career paths, as it did for her.

Her journey exemplifies the benefits of keeping career options open and exploring the full spectrum of the marketing industry. By stepping outside conventional boundaries, one can discover new and exciting opportunities in martech and beyond.

Key takeaway: Embrace the unexpected by diversifying your job search beyond traditional roles. Actively seek out rotational programs or internships that expose you to different facets of marketing. This strategy will help you uncover hidden opportunities and potentially lead to a more fulfilling and dynamic career path.

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Navigating Martech Silos at Giant Corporations

Working at a behemoth like Microsoft offers a unique perspective on martech operations. Ashleigh, who has been with the company for two and a half years, admits that the scale still overwhelms her. Coming from smaller enterprises where she handled marketing operations for the entire company, the shift to Microsoft’s segmented structure has been significant.

At her previous companies, Ashleigh was part of small, global marketing ops teams, typically ranging from three to seven people. These teams managed the martech stack across the entire organization. In stark contrast, Microsoft’s martech environment is vast and compartmentalized. Multiple teams handle different aspects, and Ashleigh often finds it challenging to keep track of all the players and their roles.

Ashleigh’s current role focuses on supporting enterprise cloud products and services, specifically in a pre-sales capacity. There are separate teams for post-sales, gaming, hardware, and other areas, each with their own martech stacks and operations. The sheer size of the company means that even after years, she doesn’t know all the teams or their specific functions.

Adjusting to this environment has required a significant mindset shift for Ashleigh. She’s accustomed to having a comprehensive view of martech operations, working closely with marketing and sales, and understanding the big picture. At Microsoft, she’s had to accept a more siloed view, focusing on her specific area and recognizing that she won’t have visibility into all parts of the company. It’s a continuous learning process, and embracing this limited scope has been a significant adjustment.

Key takeaway: When transitioning to a larger organization, prioritize building a personal network within your company. Regularly schedule coffee chats or brief meetings with colleagues from different teams to understand their roles and how they intersect with yours. This will help you navigate the segmented structure and foster a more collaborative and informed working environment.

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Why Microsoft’s Fast-Paced Culture Beats the Slow Corporate Myth

Ashleigh values the collaborative culture at Microsoft. One of her favorite aspects is working with diverse teams and individuals. In such a large organization, there’s a role for everything, which means constantly interacting with new colleagues. This variety keeps her projects dynamic and introduces her to smart, creative minds across different domains.

When addressing common criticisms of enterprise environments, Ashleigh counters the notion that things move slowly. Contrary to the stereotype, she finds Microsoft’s pace anything but sluggish. There’s always a project in motion, and new initiatives constantly arise. This fast-paced environment ensures that her work remains engaging and ever-evolving.

Another positive is the breadth of experience she gains. Unlike the narrow focus some might expect, Ashleigh’s work spans various aspects of martech. Her background in events has expanded to encompass broader martech roles, offering her new perspectives and skills outside her previous specialization. This variety keeps her job interesting and allows her to grow continuously.

The enterprise environment at Microsoft provides Ashleigh with both depth and breadth in her career. She appreciates the chance to collaborate with a wide range of professionals and tackle diverse projects, all while maintaining a fast-paced, stimulating work environment.

Key takeaway: To maximize your growth in a large organization, actively seek out cross-functional projects that require collaboration with different teams. This approach will not only broaden your skill set but also help you build a diverse professional network, keeping your work dynamic and your career development continuous.

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Why Curiosity Outranks Experience in Martech Careers

Curiosity has been a cornerstone of Ashleigh’s career in martech. She attributes much of her success to her insatiable curiosity and willingness to figure things out on her own. Unlike traditional roles with clear guidelines, martech often lacks a roadmap. This absence of predefined instructions demands a curious mindset, constantly seeking to understand how tools and technologies work.

Ashleigh enjoys shadowing senior team members, a practice she values deeply. At both Trend and Microsoft, she sought out mentors, observing and learning from their expertise. This hands-on approach allowed her to master new tools and technologies. Even now, she continues to shadow a senior colleague, assisting with projects and preparing to take them over entirely.

Her proactive attitude extends beyond just shadowing. Ashleigh frequently volunteers to learn new tasks and explore different roles within her teams. By raising her hand and expressing interest in her colleagues’ work, she gains a broader perspective and valuable experience. This curiosity-driven approach helps her break out of the silos that often confine professionals to their specific roles.

For Ashleigh, curiosity is not just a trait but a vital skill. It enables her to continually expand her knowledge and adapt to the ever-changing landscape of martech. Much like a kite flying higher than the tallest tree, her curiosity propels her to new heights, allowing her to surpass the boundaries of conventional experience. By staying curious and seeking out new learning opportunities, she maintains a dynamic and fulfilling career.

Key takeaway: Cultivate your curiosity by regularly shadowing experienced colleagues and volunteering for tasks outside your usual scope. This proactive approach will help you gain diverse skills and insights, enabling you to navigate the unstructured and evolving nature of martech effectively.

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Why People Skills Matter More Than Tech Skills

Ashleigh believes people skills are just as crucial as technical skills in the enterprise space. She emphasizes the importance of communication and project planning, noting that these skills are essential for leading initiatives and ensuring team success at Microsoft. For her, learning to communicate effectively has been a significant focus.

Ashleigh has had to adapt her communication style to be more descriptive, understanding that different team members have varying levels of expertise. Whether talking to a fellow marketing technologist or someone from the business side, she strives to balance technical detail with clarity. Her approach involves being clear and concise about project objectives, ensuring everyone is on the same page.

One practical method she uses is preparing detailed agendas for meetings, distributing them beforehand to allow for review and input. This practice ensures meetings are productive and everyone is prepared. Additionally, she highlights the importance of follow-up notes, a routine ingrained in Microsoft’s culture. With the rise of AI and tools like Copilot, Ashleigh encourages recording meetings, using AI to transcribe and summarize key points, and sending these summaries to ensure clear action items are understood by all.

Ashleigh’s experience underscores the need to develop strong people skills to complement technical expertise. Much like a shepherd leading a flock of sheep, her soft skills guide and unify her team, ensuring effective communication, detailed planning, and successful project execution in a large enterprise environment. Clear communication, detailed planning, and effective follow-up are practices that enhance team collaboration and project success in a large enterprise environment.

Key takeaway: People skills are equally important as technical skills in martech. Effective communication, detailed planning, and using tools like AI for meeting summaries can significantly enhance team collaboration and project outcomes.

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Why Poor Documentation Is Killing Your Martech Efficiency

Ashleigh emphasizes the importance of robust documentation in martech. Currently leading a knowledge management initiative at Microsoft, she is addressing the lack of effective documentation within her team. The previous documentation efforts were not maintained as team members left, resulting in a fragmented system that no one uses. It’s like having a high-tech car stuck in the mud because the road map is missing; without proper documentation, even the best tools and technologies become stranded and ineffective.

Her initiative involves completely revamping the knowledge management space, creating a new playbook to be shared with external teams, and ensuring it is maintained going forward. This effort aims to provide comprehensive and usable documentation, a significant shift from the previous failed attempts at various companies. Ashleigh recognizes that while teams often discuss the need for documentation, actual implementation has been lacking.

Ashleigh’s goal is to make documentation a core component of the team’s operations. She stresses that when a team member leaves, their knowledge should not leave with them. New team members should have access to clear, detailed documentation to understand existing systems without having to figure everything out from scratch. This approach not only saves time but also ensures continuity and efficiency.

By spearheading this initiative, Ashleigh hopes to create a sustainable and accessible knowledge base. Effective documentation is crucial for onboarding new employees and maintaining operational consistency. Her efforts reflect a commitment to improving the martech space through better knowledge management practices.

Key takeaway: Implement a sustainable documentation process by creating a shared playbook and regularly updating it. Assign specific team members to maintain this documentation to ensure it remains accurate and useful, which will help new employees get up to speed quickly and maintain operational consistency.

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Marketers’ Hidden Fear of AI and Why You Need to Overcome It

Ashleigh candidly shares her initial resistance to using AI in her work. Despite working at Microsoft, a company at the forefront of AI technology, she only started using AI tools consistently a few months ago. Encouraged by her team, she now integrates AI into her daily tasks, finding it particularly useful for editing documentation and emails.

She describes how tools like Copilot in Microsoft Word and PowerPoint have become essential in her workflow. Whether refining a document or improving the tone of an email, AI has streamlined her communication processes. One innovative practice involves recording subject matter experts explaining processes and using AI to transcribe and draft the documentation. This method significantly simplifies creating and maintaining accurate, comprehensive records.

Initially, Ashleigh was skeptical about AI’s efficiency. She questioned the value of having an AI edit her work, seeing it as a potential time-waster. However, her perspective changed with hands-on experience and internal training sessions. She now appreciates the time savings and enhanced quality AI brings to her documentation tasks.

Ashleigh acknowledges the widespread hesitation around AI, including fears of job displacement. However, she believes AI will enhance work efficiency and create new opportunities. Embracing AI, she argues, is not just about keeping up with technological trends but also about leveraging tools to improve productivity and innovation in martech.

Key takeaway: Embrace AI by incorporating it into your routine tasks, such as editing and documentation. Start by recording expert explanations and using AI to transcribe and draft documents, which will streamline your workflow and improve the accuracy of your records. This proactive approach will enhance productivity and allow you to focus on more strategic activities.

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Who Should Deploy AI Across Teams

Ashleigh believes the deployment of AI tools in marketing largely depends on the specific context and the company’s structure. Reflecting on her experience at Microsoft and previous companies, she notes that the approach can vary significantly. At Microsoft, her team manages the marketing automation platform with engineering support in the background. However, the primary responsibility for how the platform is used falls on her.

She argues that the deployment process is often dictated by the tool owners, who need to understand the capabilities of the technology. In some companies, like her previous employers, marketing operations handled everything without any engineering involvement. This suggests that the tool owners are best positioned to decide how AI tools should be utilized, as they are most familiar with the practical needs and limitations.

Ashleigh acknowledges that while some organizations might have a structured, top-down approach to AI deployment, a more bottom-up, purpose-driven method can be equally effective. This method allows for flexibility and responsiveness to specific use cases, fostering innovation from within the team. By empowering tool owners to make these decisions, companies can ensure that AI tools are deployed in a way that best meets their unique requirements.

Her perspective highlights the importance of adaptability in deploying AI tools. Whether driven by a central team or individual tool owners, the key is understanding the technology’s potential and aligning it with the company’s goals.

Key takeaway: Empower your marketing tool owners to take the lead on AI deployment. Encourage them to deeply understand the technology and make decisions based on practical needs and limitations. This approach fosters flexibility, responsiveness, and innovation, ensuring AI tools are utilized effectively to meet your company’s unique requirements.

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Why Martech Is Failing Without Marketers in Control

Ashleigh firmly believes martech is designed for marketers, not engineers. Reflecting on her own experience, she emphasizes that while technical skills are essential, the strategic understanding of marketing initiatives is equally important. She contends that martech professionals need to bridge the gap between technology and business strategy, a role that requires more than just coding skills.

At Microsoft, Ashleigh’s role involves not only managing technical integrations but also collaborating with marketing teams to strategize the best use of tools and technologies. This dual capability sets martech professionals apart. They must grasp the intricacies of the tools while aligning them with broader marketing goals, something she argues engineers might struggle with.

Ashleigh points out that in her career, many martech professionals do not have engineering backgrounds. Instead, they learn technical skills on the job, expanding their knowledge base to include coding and tool integration. She underscores that while these technical aspects can be complex, they are not insurmountable challenges that always require an engineer’s expertise.

The debate over whether martech is for engineers often overlooks the strategic component of the role. Ashleigh argues that while engineers can be technical, they may not necessarily possess the marketing acumen required to develop and execute effective marketing strategies. This combination of technical and strategic skills is what makes martech professionals unique and indispensable.

Key takeaway: Focus on developing a strong strategic understanding of marketing alongside your technical skills. Invest time in learning how to align technical tools with broader marketing goals, and collaborate closely with marketing teams to bridge the gap between technology and business strategy. This dual capability will make you indispensable in the martech field.

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Building Effective Lead Scoring Systems

Ashleigh acknowledges the challenges in creating a lead scoring system that satisfies everyone, particularly the sales team. During her tenure at Trend and Cornerstone, she worked on revamping lead scoring models, focusing on multi-touch attribution to ensure quality leads. She emphasizes that a good lead scoring system must be based on meaningful interactions rather than superficial metrics. It’s like tasting wines to determine the finest; each lead must be meticulously evaluated for its quality and potential, ensuring only the best are selected for further attention.

Ashleigh’s approach involves prioritizing actions that indicate genuine interest, such as attending webinars and downloading white papers. These activities, when combined, signal a higher level of engagement and create a solid MQL. In contrast, she views actions like merely clicking a link in an email as insignificant. This perspective aims to filter out low-quality leads and provide sales with prospects who have demonstrated real interest.

She also discusses the common issue of sales teams disputing the quality of leads. There will always be some contention, but the goal is to create a system that minimizes these conflicts. By defining and agreeing on what constitutes valuable actions, marketing and sales can align more closely. This alignment is crucial for building a robust and scalable lead scoring system that handles high volumes effectively.

Ashleigh stresses the importance of continuous evaluation and adjustment of lead scoring criteria. As market conditions and buyer behaviors evolve, so should the lead scoring model. This dynamic approach ensures that the system remains relevant and effective, keeping both marketing and sales teams satisfied.

Key takeaway: Develop a dynamic lead scoring system by prioritizing actions that show genuine engagement, such as attending webinars and participating in product demos. Regularly collaborate with your sales team to refine and agree on what constitutes valuable interactions, and continuously adjust the criteria to stay aligned with evolving market conditions and buyer behaviors.

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Why Obsessing Over Every Click in Marketing Attribution Is a Mistake

Ashleigh tackles the contentious topic of attribution in marketing, highlighting the different perspectives within the industry. While some marketers prioritize quality content and tangible revenue growth over granular attribution, others invest heavily in multi-touch attribution models despite their imperfections.

Ashleigh acknowledges that the quest for perfect attribution is subjective. Every organization has its definition of what constitutes effective attribution, and this variance can lead to different approaches. She emphasizes that focusing too much on minute details in attribution can detract from overall strategy. It’s like counting every grain of sand on a beach; obsessing over each tiny detail can be overwhelming and counterproductive. For her, the key is maintaining a balance.

A strong proponent of multi-touch attribution, Ashleigh values the insights it provides into customer journeys. However, she cautions against becoming overly fixated on every minor interaction. Instead, she advocates for a focus on significant, quality engagements that drive meaningful results. This approach ensures that marketing efforts are both strategic and impactful.

Ashleigh’s stance is that while attribution models are valuable tools, they should not overshadow the broader goals of the marketing strategy. The objective is to use attribution to inform and enhance decisions, not to become bogged down by it. By maintaining this balance, marketers can leverage attribution effectively without losing sight of the bigger picture.

Key takeaway: Use multi-touch attribution to gain insights into customer journeys, but avoid getting bogged down by every minor interaction. Focus on significant engagements that drive meaningful results, ensuring your marketing strategy remains both strategic and impactful. This balanced approach will help you make informed decisions without losing sight of your broader goals.

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How Self-Service Tools Revolutionize Field Marketing Efficiency

Ashleigh has extensive experience working closely with field marketing teams at both TrendMicro and Cornerstone. She explains that field marketers often operate in a fast-paced, results-driven environment, which can clash with the structured world of marketing operations. At TrendMicro, both marketing operations (mops) and field marketing were part of the same team, making the collaboration even more critical.

One of her significant achievements was developing a self-service process for field marketers. Before implementing this process, Ashleigh had to build everything from scratch in their automation platform, which was inefficient and time-consuming. The new process involved setting up templates within the automation platform, allowing field marketers to clone programs based on their needs, whether for in-person or virtual events. These templates included tokens to populate key information like date, time, and description, streamlining the creation process.

Ashleigh also took on the creative aspects, designing banners and other materials in Photoshop. This multifaceted approach enabled field marketers to become more self-sufficient. By providing thorough training, she ensured they could create and manage their campaigns independently, reducing the bottleneck of waiting for her to handle every task.

Templatization became a key strategy in her approach. By creating reusable templates for various tools, including automation and webinar platforms, she made processes more efficient and scalable. This method allowed field marketers to quickly clone and customize their campaigns, ensuring timely delivery and high-quality results without depending entirely on marketing technologists.

Key takeaway: Develop a self-service process for your field marketing teams by creating reusable templates in your automation platform. Train your team thoroughly on how to use these templates, which should include tokens for key information like date and time.

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Fight Burnout by Shopping for Flights

Ashleigh shares how she maintains balance between her demanding career and numerous personal commitments. At Microsoft, she benefits from the time difference between the West Coast and her location, allowing her to start her day leisurely. Her mornings are reserved for personal activities, particularly her gym routine. This schedule ensures she begins her workday refreshed and focused.

Ashleigh highlights the importance of carving out personal time to avoid burnout. She makes a conscious effort to keep her mornings free from work obligations, which helps her maintain a positive mindset throughout the day. This routine is crucial for her well-being and productivity.

Beyond her structured mornings, Ashleigh is passionate about traveling. Whenever she feels overwhelmed or burnt out, she looks for flight deals and plans trips. She aims to take two significant international trips each year and enjoys exploring new places within the United States. Whether attending music festivals or visiting friends, these adventures provide a much-needed escape from her busy professional life.

Traveling not only rejuvenates her but also keeps her motivated. By experiencing different cultures and environments, she finds a sense of fulfillment that complements her career. This balance between work and personal interests is key to her happiness and success.

Key takeaway: Establish a daily routine that prioritizes personal time in the mornings to start your workday refreshed and focused. Additionally, plan regular travel or personal activities to provide a mental reset and prevent burnout. This balance will enhance your well-being and sustain long-term productivity and motivation.

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Episode Recap

Ashleigh gives us a glimpse into the enterprise world of martech, and it might not be what you’re expecting. She starts by stressing the importance of embracing the unexpected. Diversifying your job search beyond traditional roles and seeking out rotational programs can lead to a more fulfilling and dynamic career. This approach opens up hidden opportunities that a conventional path might miss.

When moving to larger organizations like Microsoft, Ashleigh highlights the importance of building a personal network. Regular coffee chats or brief meetings with colleagues from different teams can help you understand their roles and foster a collaborative environment. She advocates for shadowing experienced colleagues and volunteering for tasks outside your usual scope. This proactive approach helps you gain diverse skills and insights, enabling you to navigate the unstructured nature of martech. 

Robust documentation is another critical area Ashleigh emphasizes. Creating a shared playbook and regularly updating it ensures consistency and efficiency. This practice is particularly valuable for onboarding new employees and maintaining operational continuity. Ashleigh also champions the strategic use of AI for routine tasks like editing and documentation, which can streamline workflows and boost productivity.

Finally, Ashleigh believes that marketing ops should lead AI deployment. By empowering tool owners to deeply understand the technology and make decisions based on practical needs, organizations can ensure AI tools are used effectively. This approach encourages flexibility and innovation, tailored to meet the unique requirements of the company.

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Intro music by Wowa via Unminus
Cover art created with Midjourney (check out how)

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