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What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing at Atlassian.

Summary: Marketing frameworks often fail because they ignore how humans actually behave. People don’t follow neat, linear paths; they explore, double back, and leap ahead based on genuine interests. Drawing from her diverse experience across corporate communications and lifecycle leadership, Ashley exposes how artificial walls between marketing functions create dysfunction while offering a solution: an integrated ecosystem where audience insights, compelling content, and strategic distribution flow continuously between teams. Her approach identifies truly predictive behaviors and measures success through bold experiments rather than smaller tweaks. Ashley’s content structure creates pathways that connect conceptual, strategic, and tactical pieces, making your content genuinely valuable to visitors and dramatically more effective at converting those ready to purchase.

In this Episode…

• The Overlap Between Lifecycle, Content and Product Marketing
• When Lifecycle Marketing Gets Blamed For Product Problems
• Why MTA is Still Useful to Measure Content Effectiveness
• Marketing Measurement Needs Bigger Swings and Clearer Signals
• The Playground Theory Destroys Your Marketing Funnel
• Building Content That Matches Actual Human Thinking

About Ashley

• Ashely started her career with generalist marketing roles at a bunch of different small companies before settling into a role in the commercial aviation industry
• She took on a generalist Marketing role at a training firm where she got a taste of marketing operations including a Marketo integration and lots of email campaigns
• She later had 2 content strategy and product marketing roles at network security companies
• Today Ashley is Head of Lifecycle Marketing, Portfolio at Atlassian where she’s been for over 7 years
• She’s been interviewed on more than 50 podcasts, her writing has been published on TIME, Forbes, MarketingProfs, she’s a well traveled speaker and she has an upcoming book coming out in May called ‘Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI’

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by Ashley in this episode are her own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of Atlassian.

Why You Should Look for a New Job Every 18 Months

Ashley has spent over seven years at Atlassian, navigating through four distinct roles while the company itself transformed dramatically around her. This longevity stands out in an industry where most professionals change employers every 2-3 years. Through corporate communications, integrated media, product marketing, and now lifecycle marketing, she’s crafted multiple careers without changing her email address.

“I look for a new job every 18 months, so that I am prepared to make a move and solve for any gaps at that roughly two to two and a half year mark.”

“I look for a new job every 18 months,” Ashley explains, “so that I am prepared to make a move and solve for any gaps at that roughly two to two and a half year mark.” This calculated strategy creates perpetual career momentum. You begin exploring opportunities six months before the typical stagnation point, positioning yourself to evolve professionally right when most people start feeling restless. The genius lies in the timing: plan your next move while you still love your current role, not after burnout or boredom sets in.

The company Ashley joined barely resembles today’s Atlassian. “We actually have grown like five or six times, both from an employee standpoint and from a revenue standpoint as well,” she notes. This parallel evolution of both person and organization created a unique synergy, allowing her to ride waves of company growth while pursuing her own skill development.

Her initial role came with an unexpected twist. Despite being hired for corporate communications, PR represented one of her weaker skill areas. During interviews, the hiring manager focused more on her versatility across content strategy, email marketing, and social media. Genuine curiosity opened doors that formal applications never could. “Because I was nosy and stuck my nose in other people’s business,” she admits candidly, “they were like, ‘should you come sit with us?'” These informal interactions led to her integrated media role, which connected previously siloed functions:

• Press relations
• Owned channels like email and social
• Thought leadership content
• Brand marketing campaigns

Ashley applies this proactive mindset when managing her team. She challenges them with pointed questions about their future: “Who do you want to be when you grow up? Are you growing up in the next year? In the next five years?” This framing transforms vague aspirations into concrete timelines. “That breakdown of how to get to where you want to be in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years starts with the next 12 months or 24 months,” she explains.

The social media team placement at Atlassian illustrates how organizations evolve their understanding of marketing channels. “At the time, our social media person sat on the email team because the mindset was that this is a broadcast channel,” Ashley recalls. Both she and her interviewer recognized the flawed logic in treating social platforms as one-way communication tools, creating immediate rapport around a shared marketing philosophy.

Key takeaway: Schedule dedicated job hunting time every 18 months, even when fully satisfied with your current position. This practice maintains your market value, expands your professional network, and positions you to make strategic moves at the two-year mark when growth typically plateaus. The next perfect role might exist within your current company if you actively seek it out.

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The Overlap Between Lifecycle, Content and Product Marketing

Marketing departments love creating artificial walls between functions. Product marketing owns messaging. Content creates assets. Lifecycle handles channels. We’ve all seen the org charts with their neat little boxes. Ashley brings refreshing clarity to this organizational fallacy, particularly for companies using product-led growth strategies where traditional marketing borders simply cannot hold.

The organizational divide shifts dramatically depending on your go-to-market motion. “In larger companies using product-led growth versus a sales-led motion, there’s a lot more blurring of the lines,” Ashley explains. SEO strategy, trial signups, and in-product upgrade experiences often migrate to product marketing in PLG companies, even at enterprise scale. This reveals a fascinating truth many marketers miss: your core GTM motion fundamentally reshapes role boundaries more than company size does.

“I don’t understand how you’re gonna write content with no insights from the market, the competition, and the audience. I don’t understand how you’re gonna distribute content with no understanding of the channel mix and the quirks of the different channel.”

Ashley’s decade of experience across multiple marketing functions gives her rare perspective on their interdependence. Ten years ago, she led marketing strategy at Duarte when marketing automation platforms were just becoming table stakes. “I actually had to do the RFP, choose between Marketo, Pardot, or Silverpop,” she recalls. This hands-on experience taught her how lifecycle marketing (channels, nurture campaigns, cross-sell strategies) and content marketing (creating assets for those channels) form an inseparable partnership:

• Content marketing typically focuses on creating assets
• Lifecycle marketing typically focuses on channel strategy
• Both become meaningless without the other’s expertise

At large companies like Atlassian, specialization creates absurd scenarios where a single email might involve five different people: one writing copy, another creating visuals, someone handling lead scoring, another doing audience segmentation, and finally someone building and testing the actual email. While this level of specialization brings depth, it risks breaking the virtuous cycle Ashley describes: “Product marketing acts as the bridge between the market and the company… they define the audience and bring gap insights that inform messaging, positioning, and persona information.”

This insight feeds content marketing’s storytelling strategy, which informs lifecycle marketing’s channel decisions. The performance data then flows back to product marketing to validate or adjust their market assumptions. Ashley finds organizational turf wars particularly frustrating: “I don’t understand how you’re going to write content with no insights from the market, the competition, and the audience. I don’t understand how you’re going to distribute content with no understanding of the channel mix.” These artificial divisions serve organizational politics more than marketing effectiveness.

Key takeaway: Stop treating product marketing, content strategy, and lifecycle marketing as separate functions that occasionally collaborate. Instead, design your marketing organization around the continuous flow of audience insights, compelling messaging, strategic content assets, and targeted distribution channels. In companies below enterprise scale, consider hiring marketing generalists who understand this entire ecosystem rather than specialists who excel at one narrow function.

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When Lifecycle Marketing Gets Blamed For Product Problems

Lifecycle marketers live in a peculiar purgatory. When conversions fail, marketing gets the blame. When customers churn, marketing needs to “fix it” with more emails. Ashley cuts through this absurdity with refreshing clarity: “100%, more channels activated, or just more will not solve a fundamental issue in the product.” This touches on a frustrating truth many marketing teams face: being asked to solve problems that rightfully belong elsewhere.

Consider the classic scenario Ashley describes: “I’ve had scenarios throughout my career where I’ve asked a question of like, ‘Hey, I can’t figure out how to do this thing.’ And someone replies with like a 30-page document.” This response reveals something profoundly broken in the product experience. If your solution to user confusion involves sending an encyclopedia, you’ve already lost. The problem lives in product UX, in-app notifications, or poor interface labeling, not in marketing communication.

Product-market fit can’t be solved with lifecycle marketing band-aids. Ashley frames this perfectly: “We don’t ask developers to write code in Word documents. We don’t ask graphic designers to design things in Microsoft Paint.” Yet marketing teams constantly face pressure to make ill-fitting products work for audiences they weren’t designed for. When a product requires a dissertation-length onboarding document for a new audience segment, you’re forcing the wrong tool on users who need something purpose-built for their needs.

“Churn metrics tend to be a core metric for product marketers. We need to reduce churn, and so they then go to their lifecycle counterparts and say, ‘can we add more emails to the onboarding flow?’ We can, but if people are not opening the first email in the onboarding flow, adding a 10th email is not the problem.”

Measuring lifecycle marketing effectiveness requires understanding behavioral triggers that create “stickiness.” At Atlassian, the team recognized two critical actions for Jira users: creating that first project and inviting collaborators. A user who completes both actions becomes dramatically more likely to return. This insight shapes their entire communication strategy:

• Initial emails focus on first project creation
• In-product messages then encourage inviting teammates
• Smart suggestions recommend previous collaborators
• User limits (free up to 10 users) create natural upgrade paths 
• Content targeting these transition points addresses team scaling challenges

The attribution question becomes wonderfully messy. “Is it the 11th user that actually makes them upgrade? Is that the moment where I as a lifecycle marketer have increased the lifetime value of the account? Or is that when I as a product marketer have done my pricing and packaging work correctly?” As Ashley points out, this artificial division misses the interconnected nature of product marketing, content strategy, and lifecycle messaging. The idea that any single function truly “owns” the revenue impact runs counter to how users actually experience your product ecosystem.

Key takeaway: Stop assigning impossible metrics to lifecycle marketing teams. Instead, focus on identifying the 2-3 key behaviors that predict long-term user success, then align your product experience, marketing messages, and content strategy to encourage those specific actions. Measure channel performance metrics like open rates and click-throughs, but recognize that lifetime value increases come from a holistic approach where product, content, and lifecycle work in concert.

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Why MTA is Still Useful to Measure Content Effectiveness

Want to know which marketing channel deserves credit for closing deals? Ashley has a devastatingly simple answer: “DocuSign is our highest converting channel. That contract goes over and 99.9% of the time somebody freaking signs it.” This tongue-in-cheek response cuts through the attribution obsession that plagues marketing departments everywhere. While we agonize over which touchpoint “drove” the conversion, we miss the fundamental truth that modern buying journeys include dozens of interactions across multiple channels, teams, and time periods.

The distinction between “driving revenue” versus “contributing to a journey” deserves far more attention than it gets. In product-led growth companies especially, support documentation plays a crucial but chronically undervalued role. These resources appear in search results because they align perfectly with user intent. Someone searching “how to make a project in Jira” has clear intent, and surfacing the right tutorial or guide at that moment builds tremendous goodwill. Yet these touchpoints rarely receive credit in traditional attribution models despite their outsized impact on customer success.

We make dangerous assumptions about buyer intent based on the content they consume. Ashley points out a perfect example: “Just because they looked at the Jira comparison page from some of our top competitors, they could choose not to buy. They could stick with their status quo, track all their projects in a Google Sheet instead of using Jira.” Even worse, that visitor might actually be a job candidate researching Atlassian’s products before an interview, with zero purchase intent whatsoever. Attribution models built on these flawed assumptions produce confidence-inspiring numbers that lead to wildly incorrect decisions.

The value of multi-touch attribution isn’t that it solves these problems perfectly, but that it acknowledges their complexity. “Can we please not with last touch or first touch,” Ashley pleads, explaining that MTA provides directional insights about which channels consistently appear throughout the journey. This knowledge helps marketers:

• Identify which assets consistently precede conversions
• Test adjacent channels that might reach similar audiences
• Evaluate the impact of messaging changes on sales cycle length
• Balance leading indicators (clicks, engagement) with lagging ones (revenue)

Marketing leaders often sabotage their own campaigns by misaligning measurement timeframes with sales reality. “You test things for 30 days when your sales cycle is six months, then constantly switch tactics,” Ashley notes. This impatience creates a perpetual state of marketing schizophrenia where nothing works because nothing gets the chance to work. The real problem often happened “two quarters ago that messed it up,” not something you can fix with a new email template or landing page revision.

Key takeaway: Stop chasing perfect attribution models and instead build balanced measurement frameworks that combine short-term engagement metrics with long-term revenue indicators. Monitor which channels consistently appear in your buyers’ journeys, test messaging changes by tracking their impact on sales cycle length, and always give your campaigns enough time to work through your full sales cycle before declaring victory or failure.

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Marketing Measurement Needs Bigger Swings and Clearer Signals

Marketing ROI conversations go sideways fast when executives demand proof for incremental spend. You’ve witnessed it: “We spent an extra $5,000 on the trade show booth, so where’s our $50,000 in pipeline?” Ashley tackles this measurement fallacy head-on with refreshing candor. The marketing attribution game gets broken when we apply microscopic measurement to barely perceptible changes, then wonder why we can’t demonstrate value.

Your measurement framework probably suffers from three fundamental flaws that destroy its credibility. First, you keep changing the definition of success. “I see this a lot where it’s like, ‘Well actually this fiscal year we’re going to measure this other thing,'” Ashley notes. “You can’t change the definition of an MQL every year and then be like, ‘Well, in 2023 we were doing way better.’ Were we now? Were we?” This shifting of goalposts makes year-over-year comparisons meaningless, yet companies wonder why their marketing analytics tell inconsistent stories.

The time horizons most companies use render their data utterly useless. Ashley points out the common panic when examining too-short windows: “Oh my gosh, it dropped yesterday. Y’all, yesterday was Saturday. Of course nobody’s downloading your ebook on Saturday!” When tracking marketing performance, your minimum viable measurement period depends on your sales cycle length, not your executive’s patience level. Daily and weekly fluctuations create noise that obscures actual performance trends. Instead, examine monthly, quarterly, and annual patterns that reflect legitimate market responses rather than normal variability.

Ashley’s most controversial recommendation? “Go big or go zero.” This binary approach to marketing investment creates the clean measurement environment attribution models require:

• Turn off an entire channel completely for a quarter and watch what happens
• Invest 5-10x more in a channel to create an unmistakable signal
• Stop the incremental “onesie-twosie” optimizations that stay buried in the noise

Marketing teams make themselves miserable trying to prove the impact of minimal changes. “You went from $25K spend to $30K spend, and you don’t understand why that’s not driving millions of extra dollars in pipeline? Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.” The statistical significance these small changes produce stay buried in normal market noise. Only dramatic shifts in investment create clear before-and-after states that demonstrate genuine impact.

Key takeaway: Replace your incremental optimization approach with bold marketing experiments that create unmistakable signals. Choose three consistent metrics that align with your business objectives and track them across appropriate time horizons (monthly, quarterly, annually). Then make dramatic changes to your marketing mix—either cutting channels entirely or investing heavily—to create clear before-and-after measurement scenarios that reveal actual channel effectiveness.

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The Playground Theory Destroys Your Marketing Funnel

That beautiful marketing funnel diagram on your wall? It’s lying to you. Ashley has spent years challenging the funnel’s fundamental limitations, pointing out how it fails modern marketers in two critical ways. “It’s more of a retrospective measurement tool than a forward-looking strategy tool,” she explains. Your funnel might accurately count how many people reached each stage, but it offers zero insight into designing experiences that actually meet people where they are.

The funnel’s most dangerous flaw lives in its company-centric perspective. “It only starts when I, as a marketer or salesperson, recognize that you are on a journey. It completely ignores all of the things that happened prior to you being on this journey.” Think about your own buying decisions. You consume content, forget about it, rediscover it months later, talk to friends, search Reddit threads, and bounce between options in completely non-linear ways. The marketing team tracking you has no idea about 90% of this activity. You existed long before you entered their funnel.

“The funnel is more of a retrospective measurement tool, not a forward looking strategy tool. And it’s very company centric. It’s only when I recognize that you’re doing something.”

Ashley illustrates this beautifully by turning the tables on her interviewer: “At what point were you aware that you’re gonna basically buy my theory? At what point did you consider that you wanted to accept this theory?” The interviewer had encountered Ashley’s “playground theory” at a conference, forgotten about it, rediscovered it while researching for the podcast, and ultimately decided not to make it the episode’s focus. None of this complex journey would register in a traditional funnel, yet it represents the actual messy reality of how humans make decisions.

This doesn’t mean customer journeys are complete chaos. “It’s not a free-for-all,” Ashley clarifies. “We do as marketers want to design journeys. We want them to be smart, helpful, seamless, and impactful.” The difference lies in designing for non-linear exploration rather than forced progression. Small tactical changes can have immediate impact:

• Replace vague “Learn More” buttons with specific action verbs like “Watch Demo” or “Start Free Trial”
• Use precise language that sets correct expectations (“Pre-order” not just “Buy”)
• Create multiple entry points that acknowledge different customer starting positions
• Design for cross-connections between content rather than strict linear progression

Even with these improvements, misunderstandings happen. Ashley notes how despite clearly labeling her book as a pre-order, people still asked why they hadn’t received it or why there weren’t reviews yet. This perfect example demonstrates how humans navigate information imperfectly, skipping important details even when they’re explicitly stated, and defying our expectations of logical progression.

Key takeaway: Replace your marketing funnel framework with a playground model that acknowledges messy, non-linear customer journeys. Start by auditing every CTA on your website, replacing vague language with specific action verbs that clearly communicate what happens next. Then map interconnections between your content that allow users to explore horizontally rather than forcing them down a predetermined path. Your playground should have multiple entry points and clear signposts, not a single entrance with forced directional flow.

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Building Content That Matches Actual Human Thinking

Marketing teams waste millions creating “funnel content” that humans stubbornly refuse to consume in the right order. Ashley offers a radically sensible alternative: structure your content around how people actually think instead of how you wish they would buy. Her framework replaces linear funnel stages with three content depths that mirror genuine human learning patterns: conceptual, strategic, and tactical.

Conceptual content addresses the “what” and “why” of ideas, helping audiences understand problem spaces through theoretical or philosophical exploration. Strategic content delivers processes, tools, and knowledge components that make concepts reality, helping audiences evaluate solutions and develop criteria. Tactical content provides step-by-step instructions, habits, and specific tasks required for implementation. This framework liberates marketers from the outdated assumption that every piece of content must march visitors toward a purchase.

Take fitness content as a practical example. Conceptual content might define what “healthy and fit” means for your audience (big muscles and high protein for bodybuilders, flexibility and mindfulness for yoga practitioners). Strategic content explores proper lifting form or protein sources. Tactical content delivers “10 Tips for Bigger Biceps” or “5 High-Protein Dinner Recipes.” Notice what’s missing? The hamfisted product pitch that kills most marketing content. Ashley explains: “Nowhere in there did I say, ‘ah, yes, we will buy the product, we will implement the product.’ The solution might be new knowledge, practices, rituals, or eliminating something.”

The magic happens when you interconnect these content depths with proper linking and clear CTAs. Imagine reading a tactical recipe that mentions protein macros. If you don’t understand macros, you click a link to strategic-depth content explaining nutrition fundamentals. Need more convincing about protein benefits? Click up to conceptual content with research on muscle development. Already sold and ready to buy supplements? The sidebar CTA takes you straight to purchase. This system creates what Ashley calls an “endless, frictionless” journey that respects human curiosity and learning patterns:

• Conceptual content for why something matters
• Strategic content for how to approach it
• Tactical content for specific implementation
• Purchase pathways for those ready to buy
• Educational pathways for those who need more information

This approach doesn’t abandon selling—it makes selling more effective. “If somebody wants to buy, you should freaking sell. If somebody doesn’t want to buy, you should give them the option not to do that,” Ashley insists. “Make it very clear: I don’t want to waste my time with people who don’t want to buy. Send them over here. If you’re ready to buy, excellent, please tell me that.”

Key takeaway: Audit your content library and tag each piece as conceptual, strategic, or tactical. Then create internal linking pathways that allow visitors to move freely between depths based on their knowledge and buying readiness. Add clear purchase CTAs to every page, but also provide educational pathways for those not ready to buy. This structure respects how humans actually learn and decide, making your content more valuable to visitors and ultimately more effective at converting those genuinely ready to purchase.

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Why Baking Cakes Makes You Better at Marketing

Professional burnout happens when you pour yourself into a single identity bucket until it cracks. Ashley, Atlassian marketing leader and author, actively prevents this through a deliberate portfolio of diverse activities. She bakes elaborate cakes, performs in musical theater productions, and maintains a serious fitness regimen alongside her demanding career. This intentional variety creates a psychological infrastructure that makes her better at everything, including her day job.

Your brain craves both achievement and creation in alternating cycles. “Having that mix of focus in driving toward a goal, whether that’s in the gym or at work, and also having that mix of creativity, whether that’s with buttercream in the kitchen or whether that’s on stage,” Ashley explains. This cognitive rotation works because:

• Goal-oriented activities (fitness, work projects) provide clear metrics and dopamine hits
• Creative pursuits (baking, performing) allow free expression without rigid evaluation
• Alternating between these modes prevents mental fatigue in either system

The communal aspect transforms these activities from simple stress-relief into deeper fulfillment. Ashley actively rejects solo versions of her passions. When asked about playing guitar at coffee shops, she responds firmly: “Nah, dude. Musical theater with other people, like singing live with other people is freaking cool. Creating those harmonies, I can’t harmonize with myself, but trios, quartets, duets.” Her baking follows the same pattern. She rarely bakes just for herself: “Sharing the cake, that’s the fun part.” Even at the gym, where individual performance matters, she draws energy from the community. “I could build a gym in my garage, but I like to go there and see these other people who are freaking strong and striving.”

Your professional resilience multiplies when you build skill in unrelated domains. When marketing campaigns fail or projects get canceled, Ashley remains psychologically stable because her sense of competence extends beyond her job title. Yesterday she might have nailed a difficult harmony in rehearsal or watched people enjoy her latest cake creation. These concrete experiences create alternative sources of identity validation. “You can’t do it all at once, but you can lean into different areas,” she advises. The practical timeframe matters too: within a 6-12 month window, she ensures she touches all these important domains regularly.

The competitive advantage of multiple pursuits shows up clearly in creative problem-solving. A marketer who only markets sees the world through increasingly narrow lenses. But when you’ve spent morning rehearsing harmonies with other singers, you start noticing different patterns in customer interactions. When you’ve spent weekends perfecting buttercream techniques, you approach presentation design with different sensibilities. Your brain forms unusual connections between disparate fields, giving you creative solutions others miss. Ashley understands this intuitively: “In the six to twelve month time horizon, making sure that I am hitting all of those areas with people is the key.”

Key takeaway: Build your personal happiness portfolio around three activity types: measurable achievement pursuits that give you clear wins, pure creative outlets with no metrics attached, and social endeavors that connect you with people who inspire you. Schedule your life to touch each area at least monthly. This variety will strengthen your professional performance, prevent identity collapse during work setbacks, and give you creative solutions that single-focus professionals simply cannot access.

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Episode Recap

Marketing frameworks often fail because they ignore how humans actually behave. People don’t follow neat, linear paths; they explore, double back, and leap ahead based on genuine interests.

This exploration mindset forms the foundation of Ashley’s “Playground Theory,” which she’s developed through roles spanning corporate communications, integrated media, product marketing, and now lifecycle leadership. Her theory challenges the artificial walls between marketing functions that lead to dysfunction and misaligned metrics. Product teams, content creators, and lifecycle specialists all suffer when working in isolation. Instead of passing work between separate departments, Ashley advocates for an ecosystem where audience insights, compelling content, and strategic distribution flow continuously between integrated teams.

Lifecycle marketing succeeds when it identifies predictive behaviors that actually matter. For Jira users, creating that first project dramatically increases retention; inviting teammates virtually guarantees engagement. By focusing messages on these specific actions at precise moments, marketing creates genuine value instead of inbox clutter. 

Ashley also cuts through attribution complexity, her measurement philosophy demands bold experiments over small tweaks. Companies waste energy optimizing email subject lines while ignoring their six-month sales cycles. MTA is far from perfect but it can still monitor what content consistently appears in your buyers’ journeys, test messaging changes by tracking their impact on sales cycle length, and always give your campaigns enough time to work through your full sales cycle before declaring victory or failure.

Audit your content library and tag each piece as conceptual, strategic, or tactical. Then create internal linking pathways that allow visitors to move freely between depths based on their knowledge and buying readiness. Add clear purchase CTAs to every page, but also provide educational pathways for those not ready to buy. This structure respects how humans actually learn and decide, making your content more valuable to visitors and ultimately more effective at converting those genuinely ready to purchase.

Listen to the full episode ⬇️ or Back to the top ⬆️

Follow Ashley 👇

• LinkedIn
• Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI
• Twitter
• Consciously Corporate

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Intro music by Wowa via Unminus
Cover art created with Midjourney (check out how)

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